the alt-right

I am not going to claim any understanding of how to operate in the contemporary world.

But the privileged straight white males in my social circle? Myself included? We got WAY more action by performing SNAGness (wearing flowery shirts, reading Sylvia Plath, listening to the Smiths, giving backrubs) than we would have through machismo.

Is that route no longer open to young men? Or have they considered and rejected it?

Hey, just a heads up. Punksishippies has in a few short months defended Trump from being a racist, along with defences of Varg Vikernes and now Milo, and has complained that nazi music is too difficult to buy. I don't think anyone needs to take him particularly seriously.

no one should be allowed on the internet until the age of 21

Says someone I assumed was 16.

hey punkishippies what's your take on the whole #cancelbella situation

this seems like a valuable moment to interview / chat w/ someone who is clearly sympathetic to the movement if not a member themselves it would suck if ilx did its whole burn the witch thing esp since the poster is being quite polite and laying out their perspective

but yes i'd also like to hear his take on #cancelbella

yes you guys are carrying out important anthropology right now

let's not make fun of the guy who blames the alt-right on contemporary society not allowing white males to live!

u can do what you want but he's being polite so why not just ask him questions + not be rude. we all know that alt-right + sympathizers are probably drek of the earth no one needs to convince anyone of that here and he's not a beloved poster so you don't need to convince him to think correctly. just enjoy the ride.

i'd like to know if all alt-right true believers look like nerds in fedoras irl (like that in-and-out pic suggests) bc that seems like a pretty depressing self-clowning version of masculinity and doesn't have any of the tropes of masculinity you'd think they'd want to revive like athleticism or manual labor or casanovaness etc. it's like they've reinvented the male and he's a 14yo pimply gamer who looks at porn on 4chan.

otm, both posts

this seems like a valuable moment to interview / chat w/ someone who is clearly sympathetic to the movement if not a member themselves it would suck if ilx did its whole burn the witch thing esp since the poster is being quite polite and laying out their perspective

― Mordy

be my guest, but personally i don't feel like alt-righters have exactly been shrinking violets when it comes to expressing themselves. god knows i've tried in the past but i just don't have a lot of skill in talking to ascians.

I don't get why some of these guys are so down on exhibitionist Twitch (a game playing streaming service where you see the player on camera) girls when the guys are so into fanservice in animation, comics and games? Is it the whole "fake geek girl" thing they had with cosplayers?

doesn't have any of the tropes of masculinity you'd think they'd want to revive like athleticism or manual labor or casanovaness etc.

― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:51

That would require quite a bit more effort.

i didn't know they were. that's weird. here's another alt-right trope i don't get - when they complain that SJW's are ruining television + video games. television and video games are afaict the best they've ever been in my lifetime so how can anyone claim w/ a straight face that they're being ruined? like even if your own metric was ideological and not gameplay related there are so many indie games atm that there are probably more alt-right friendly games than ever before in history. xp

same reason as a section of "music fans" seem to get more worked up about the existence of stuff they don't like than stuff they do?

except unlike most libs he's not a hypocrite and takes it to its logical conclusion

They'll use each other while it's convenient but one of these days they'll see each other for what they really are, bitter enemies.

― punksishippies, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 03:55

I think you might be right about that last part. I could see Milo regretting all his bigging up the alt-right.
But I don't think he's that liberal. He's said that he wants gays to stay outsiders (just not to the extent of the middle east).
I think he's dishonest so it wouldn't surprise me if he's been a hypocrite. He completely changed his tune on gamers and deleted previous tweets when he realised he could use gamergate.

i didn't know they were. that's weird. here's another alt-right trope i don't get - when they complain that SJW's are ruining television + video games.
― Mordy, Wednesday, October 12, 2016 12:02 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe it's because they got older and video games aren't as fun for them anymore and they want to continue being man children

I thought this run down of some of Yiannopoulos' pre-gamergate exploits was interesting

https://maxdunbar.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/milo-yiannopoulous-and-the-kernel/

television and video games are afaict the best they've ever been in my lifetime so how can anyone claim w/ a straight face that they're being ruined?

Because GIRLS are playing them too now. Duh.

"Thanks for ruining shell art!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA

I think it's a good thing for games to be for everyone but when people were complaining about Wii and Nintendo DS ruining everything, there was a small part of me saying "PlayStation made games lamestream, if you're not going to play King Of Fighters, Metal Slug, Secret Of Mana and Castlevania with us you can get the fuck out. Take Call Of Duty, Tombraider, Grand Theft Auto and sports series games and shove them up your ass when you're leaving".
But the whole core vs mainstream/casual arguments never really held up to scrutiny.

lmao @ this turning into a video game thread, of course

I always picture a lot of alt-right guys as a bit jocky. Have the jocks and right wing geeks joined forces?

watched a prescient daria ep last night where jane was dating a "retro" guy who dressed in meticulously accurate '40s wear (inc fedora) and had a bunch of friends who did the same, and daria didn't like the guy because he never shut up about how much more elegant and classy the postwar era was than the filthy and debased present (jane pretended not to like sick sad world for him -- v sad), and when on a double date (retro guy driving) daria finally dropped the "what about segregation" bomb the guy blew up about how she should just wait in the car for "the p.c. police" and went out to do the lindy hop w his weird closet white nationalist 4chan friends, and daria said to her date "i wish the p.c. police WERE here. i bet THEY'D give us a ride." quality lol imo

xp feel like it's specifically not jocks who are probably right-wing in more conventional ways i'm guessing? it seems more like an internet phenomenon

are jocks even a thing any more?

I'm not American but is "jock" only an insult? Can a really nice guy be described as one?

I don't know about jocks, but meatheads are still a thing.

jock is a real high school kinda thing. i think people use "jock" as a way to describe athlete asshole dudes from high school or maybe college. most of them, politically, seem relatively quaint and innocent in their conservatism. based on my rural IL upbringing, at least. the alt-right is a lot different. i don't think jocks are nearly as stunted emotionally as a lot of the alt-right dudes.

w/ the caveat that my entire knowledge of american high schools comes from television + film my impression is that jocks are a caste of athletic male students, particularly in team sports, who have high class status and are v popular. i'm guessing like there are ranks there and being QB is better than being an OL. i think jocks can be nice or jerks.

i love high school movies but they all seem to be taking place on an entirely different planet. v much liked my handful of football-team friends in high school and they did not seem to enjoy any awesome status. girls maybe tended to prefer them to my computer lab friends but this seemed neither mysterious nor unjust. subsequent political developments have not complicated this view.

the internet proved nerds are worse than jocks when given a chance

^^^^^

Yes and, a key 80s nerd fantasy was that in later life, you would be like a jillionaire running a company or whatever, and you'd have the power to, like, fire the dumb jocks who bullied you.

And you'd finally get the cheerleader.

Looked up "jock" for definition and gay porn and gay dating sites was the main result. Also insulting definitions of the stereotype but I've definitely heard people being called a "nice jock". Like Kevin in Daria I guess.

I despise geek/nerd culture but I really don't think there is a trend of them being nasty in the majority. Most of them are okay.

i dunno man i'm pretty sure the majority of super-villains are nerds so

I was going to say something about how teen movie stereotypes can't be mapped onto real-world politics but then realised that the handful of male Trump supporters on my FB friends list are all hyper-athletic gym-dwellers. (One went to uni in the US to play hockey.) So hm.

jock in my neck of the woods meant someone athletic who is not too bright, overly stereotypically masculine, rough/aggressive/boorish/loutish, insensitive, and loud. they definitely existed in my schools. there were always one or two who were the more sensible ones, though

getting your info from high school movies is probably not the best idea, especially if they're hollywood movies. they are caricatures of real people and cliques appear much more divided. characters are one-sided, simplistic and extremist for the most part, because people want to be entertained and love a "good story"

i rarely if ever saw jocks bullying nerds at my schools. nerds were getting picked on by morons who were not jocks. the jock mantra was "pick on someone your own size." the only thing i remember clearly is once a white dude, who was bigger than average but not athletic/jock big, and who had mostly popular jock friends (a few of them dressed like cowboys) pushed a black-looking mexican music nerd, who had a smaller frame, out of his way and told him he would tie him up to the back of his truck and take him for a spin. but white dude carried a cowboy complex and dressed as one a lot. clearly motivated by white cowboy's racism more than anything else, though. he didn't bother the real nerds

also nerds may do bad things on the internet, but it's because it's easier and seemingly more "anonymous." in real life, nerds do bad things by passively resisting any action and just smirking, but i've never seen them physically do something harmful. i'm talking math and science nerds here, though, not weirdo semi-antisocial ilx pop culture nerds

I was going to say something about how teen movie stereotypes can't be mapped onto real-world politics but then realised that the handful of male Trump supporters on my FB friends list are all hyper-athletic gym-dwellers. (One went to uni in the US to play hockey.) So hm.

Then, I might only know that these guys are Trump supporters because they post about it loudly and aggressively. I could have quieter non-jock Trump-loving FB friends. (Actually, I'm pretty sure one guy is, who was a geek in middle school and teaches English in Taiwan.)

What are we calling geeks who play loads of sport btw

depends what you're calling a geek. someone who is obsessed with a particular thing/hobbie?

What are we calling geeks who play loads of sport btw

― imago

british

(Actually, I'm pretty sure one guy is, who was a geek in middle school and teaches English in Taiwan.)
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:33 PM (five seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I taught abroad and this is definitely an archetype of a certain group of expats

i rarely if ever saw jocks bullying nerds at my schools. nerds were getting picked on by morons who were not jocks.

Bears reposting

academic nerds who play loads of sport go to stanford, iirc

geeks (in the obsessive hobbyist sense) who play loads of sport end up on ultimate frisbee teams

never

they just sound like sport nerds to me. i know a couple people who geek out over sports who are harmless and have suppressed their inner jock inclinations, because they can't get away with it in the real world. but they tend to be passive aggressive to non-jocks

'sport nerds' is an unfamiliar concept to me

To me too. The only thing that brings to mind is maybe people who don't actually play but obsessively study hockey statistics. Not sure anyone calls them "sports nerds' though.