the alt-right

From here:

http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2016/10/16/the-furred-reich/

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514sKZZ6u5L.jpg

Really missing out on literalizing "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS" but that's none of my business.

This is good, about the defection of the son of the founder of Stormfront to the other side - Iggy & The Stooges - https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

Iggy & The Stooges have nothing to do with the alt-right, I pasted two things by accident

AFAIK

@Elvis Telecom - yeah, adult Star Wars fandom is probably a key example? The lure of being a manchild that still just thinks things are either boring or awesoooooome + imagery straight from Triumph of the Will + that universe has literal good and bad guys predetermined by supernatural forces or biology = strong possibility of some of these guys getting a bit confused about politics and ending up in some weird places politically

xp crazy, huh. i wouldn't have believed that story as fiction!

@Elvis Telecom - yeah, adult Star Wars fandom is probably a key example? The lure of being a manchild that still just thinks things are either boring or awesoooooome + imagery straight from Triumph of the Will + that universe has literal good and bad guys predetermined by supernatural forces or biology = strong possibility of some of these guys getting a bit confused about politics and ending up in some weird places politically

― Never changed username before (cardamon)

i think i saw those movies once, and i don't remember any of the stuff you're talking about. the movie i saw was about some loser farm kid and a space hermit teaming up with a smuggler to fight space nazis. there were goofy supernatural forces but they didn't seem to actually determine anything, some people chose to be good and some people chose to be evil.

Yeah it's probably not that strong a case, and whatever might be in the movie, it's obvs a bit of a giant leap from that to being an alt-right white nationalist

In a novel bit related to this, the Chapo Trap House has on Matthew Karp, author of The Vast Southern Empire: Slaveholders at the Helm of American Foreign Policy.

They have good fun digging into the weird-ass Antebellum racial science and proto-eugenic justifications of a lot of Confederate culture, and how a lot of travels down and rings thru the online white supremacist shit today, "race realism" and all.

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-50-akp-50th-episode-ergenekon-extravaganza-101716

remember that in the old days of usenet "alt" used to stand for "anarchists, lunatics, and terrorists"

Is the trans woman Blaire White considered a part of this?

alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die

My next-door neighbour is a full-on alt-right person - he blogs, podcasts and endlessly links on social media to Brietbart, Takimag and so on, calls people "cucks" and start sentences like: "By now it should be abundantly clear to everyone except the self-deluded...".

The thing is that he is an English guy who moved to Canada about 6 years ago. His two best pals are also British and hold similar views (but express them less forcefully). They all have a background in slam poetry or stand-up and seem to have moved to this because you get to rant in public without having to think up jokes. Never lived in the USA and rarely even visited as far as I can tell. Yet completely preoccupied with US politics. Never even mentions Canadian politics except to maybe toss a few insults at Trudeau about being too femme. His hero is English alt-right wanker Paul Joseph Watson.

There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement? They have no stake in it, are uninvolved with the real politics in the place they live or come from. I wonder if it's a continuation of the obsession that a lot of Brits have with the US. Except instead of cowboys and Chuck Berry it's cucks and Alex Jones.

Not sure where I'm going with this other than to say that in the three years I've known him, his activities seem almost entirely non-political and more about having a way of publicly expressing a huge bitter chip on his shoulder. Mocking his (almost imaginary) enemies or just by apparently memorizing huge chunks of alt-right rhetoric which he'll spout in what feels like a public performance rather than as part of a conversation. As I said - it's almost like stand-up comedy without any jokes.

Milo is hilarious but a real one trick pony, i'm bored of him now

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.food.waffle-house

it's not like English expats to be right wing

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that Google bought Deja/Deja News

In a novel bit related to this, the Chapo Trap House has on Matthew Karp, author of The Vast Southern Empire: Slaveholders at the Helm of American Foreign Policy.

They have good fun digging into the weird-ass Antebellum racial science and proto-eugenic justifications of a lot of Confederate culture, and how a lot of travels down and rings thru the online white supremacist shit today, "race realism" and all.

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-50-akp-50th-episode-ergenekon-extravaganza-101716

― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:48 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was a really good episode.

There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement?

There are at least a few Americans participating in this Russia-centric political movement.

"There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement? They have no stake in it, are uninvolved with the real politics in the place they live or come from. I wonder if it's a continuation of the obsession that a lot of Brits have with the US. Except instead of cowboys and Chuck Berry it's cucks and Alex Jones."

based on my brief, harrowing forays into The _Donald over at reddit, there does some to be a lot of non-Americans participating (at least based on the lil flag icons they have next to their usernames). doesn't make any sense to me.

I know someone a bit like that but instead it's the more old fashioned Christian Republican stuff he gets from watching UK Christian channels, which overwhelmingly shows American content, with lots of American political news.

Back in February we had a provincial by-election in our riding and my alt-right neighbour was posting a whole bunch of Donald Trump stuff. I asked him why he is posting about a guy who was not even the nominee yet, for foreign election which is 10 months away and he replies "because it's literally the only thing happening in politics right now". I'm like "dude, there's an election in OUR OWN riding TODAY! Why don't you do something about that?" His reply? "Distractions, just distractions. This is the real story".

They all have a background in slam poetry

wow i didn't know BIG HOOS was several British-Canadian Trump supporters

More Scott Adams/Dilbert adjusting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexandraerin/status/788868007560880128

ive noticed the weird thing of brits and canadians being obsessed with alt-right and american right-wing stuff while being disinterested in their local political news. like for a few years now you see idiots on social media or comment threads on the guardian or whatever calling people "liberals" pejoratively despite being from surrey, criticizing black lives matter though they live in rural saskatchewan, tweeting incessantly about Trump though their twitter profile says something like "proud canadian, kelowna b.c.".

otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.

I never really understood Canadians who take more of an interest in US politics and can barely name their MP (or explain what an MP is). I should say "until now" because I've been way more engrossed in the US primaries and election than in what's currently happening in Canadian politics. I give myself something of a pass because i) I'm living in the US and ii) this American election has been pretty, um, exceptional.

Worst is when Canadians talk about their own politics as if we have a Presidential/Congressional system, e.g. I've heard someone talk about 'voting straight-ticket'.

lol clemenza to thread

it's weird when Europeans get heatedly involved and self-righteous about US politics, luckily i can't think of any examples on ILX

based on my brief, harrowing forays into The _Donald over at reddit, there does some to be a lot of non-Americans participating (at least based on the lil flag icons they have next to their usernames). doesn't make any sense to me.

Makes sense in the way that they're probably also rooting for their local version of Trump (I can vouch for the Marine Le Pen fans in France being big Trump fans), and a Trump victory would validate their cause and boost their base.

UK media is saturated with US news and culture, huge amounts of discourse is borrowed from the US (who ofc encourage it) so its hardly surprising that ppl focus on it, the whole arena of modern political coverage and discourse is v strongly american

otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.

― *-* (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 20 October 2016 03:56

While it is silly for some non-Americans to see everything through the lens of American politics, and people are probably ignoring a lot of important things that directly concern them, I don't think it's that bad to be more interested in what's going on in America right now. It's easier to find all this news and discussion too.
Perhaps some people with no heritage from Philippines are mostly posting about there right now?

I agree that citizens of the Empire should take some interest in what's happening in Rome but still

the bias is absurd but it's a huge systemic issue & that's what facilitates the particular eccentricities of individuals

it's weird when Europeans get heatedly involved and self-righteous about US politics, luckily i can't think of any examples on ILX

― nom de grrrrr (Noodle Vague), donderdag 20 oktober 2016 8:04 (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

løl

I think a lot of non-Americans here follow the election very closely because there's enough reason to believe the presidential race is a forebearer of things to come over here. Populists are on the rise all over Europe and most of them embrace not just Trump, but his ways, too. He's breaking ground with a next level fact-free approach, and manages to get away with murder almost. Populist leaders here are full of admiration and you can bet on it they will copy many of his ways.
That is mostly why I am invested in the US-race this time around. Not so much because it's about "the new leader of the free world" (sad lol) but because with Brexit, Wilders, the new extreme right on the rise in Europe, Trump and his avant-politics fits in perfectly. And I've no doubt his idiotic ways will be copy-pasted on this side of the ocean very quickly.

Populists are on the rise all over Europe

― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 20 October 2016 12:50

Isn't it bigger than that? I've heard that this sort of populism and anti-immigration is gaining momentum in Asia. Maybe an international thing?

I've heard that this sort of populism and anti-immigration is gaining momentum in Asia.

It's probably inappropriate for me to overgeneralize while sitting in the first world. But I think I can tentatively say this: Many Asian nations have less-than-exemplary records on racial integration, ethnic inclusiveness, and social justice.

I would not hold up the way that Dubai (for example) treats foreign workers as a model. Japan, while a very dynamic economy and vibrant society, is not exactly an ethnic melting pot. This is a bit of a can of worms though.

Politically, a lot of right wing and what i'd loosely describe as 'technocratic nationalist' governments have wanted to follow the path of Singapore and Taiwan - central planning and one-party dominance aligned with free market principles.

There's also an underlying fear of Chinese dominance on the UK / US right - the idea that Europe can never compete with China as China refuses to 'play by the normal rules'. Part of Trump's appeal is that idea that he can scam / deregulate his way to parity imo.

The socialist in me wants to believe the rising populism is a backlash against austerity, but I know that's only partially true. Especially since the US didn't engage in the same level of austerity as Europe (although certain individual states did, e.g. Kansas).

Isn't it bigger than that? I've heard that this sort of populism and anti-immigration is gaining momentum in Asia. Maybe an international thing?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, donderdag 20 oktober 2016 15:23 (forty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Probably, but I was only speaking from what I actually know to be the case.

I'm from the UK, but have spent most of the last 15 years living abroad, before moving back at the start of 2016 with an immigrant wife and two mixed-race children. Right now I find it hard to find any angle on UK politics which isn't a variation on despair. I sometimes try to post things on social media about how immigrants are a good thing and how we should be generally much kinder to the disadvantaged, but there's no point - half the people I know agree with me, but have nothing further to say, the other half will say nothing - maybe they agree, maybe they don't, but either way they are not going to be persuaded. With US politics, at least plenty of people are ready to engage with stuff - sometimes in an appalling way, yes, but at least there is an argument to be had instead of this fucking tutting and mumbling about "electability" or "genuine concerns".

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/trolls-for-trump

late to the canadians following us politics more than their own country's discussion but...

surrey, criticizing black lives matter though they live in rural saskatchewan, tweeting incessantly about Trump though their twitter profile says something like "proud canadian, kelowna b.c.".

otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.

― *-* (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:56 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't too far from the truth though. step outside the lower mainland and go to abby (see racist incident recently), kelowna, or anywhere rural or in the interior, and you'll see far more conservative canadians, real rednecks

your facebook feed is just the people you attract and befriend based on your own opinions and worldview

most of my friends are leftists to centrists. one was a closet conservative until i pressured him into talking about (canadian) politics, because he would always stay quiet or didn't talk about it. he was born and raised in west van. but his core circle of friends votes ndp or liberal

i've met canadians that believe the only way to real change in canada is if the us changes, because canada always follows whatever the states says. i don't agree with that, but there are some key issues that canada will just follow the us's lead on, but that's why chretien was so popular

Worst is when Canadians talk about their own politics as if we have a Presidential/Congressional system, e.g. I've heard someone talk about 'voting straight-ticket'.

― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:32 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is just unacceptable. i'm not permanently in vancouver anymore so i've forgotten a few things and have been following the us election closer, but this is basic information canadians should know! people are spending too much time watching american tv and not enough on interacting with the town/city/people around them

of course that piece of human garbage in the newyorker link above is a PUA almuni

Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself. That's hilarious.

...and gamergate hanger-on

xp

He suggested talking points for his followers to deploy, such as “If the alt-right is racist, is Israel racist, too?”

this is a stupid thought bc engaging w/ these ppl on any level is a waste of time but it's maybe amusing to note that if the US guaranteed immigration to religious compatriots like they do in israel they'd basically be opening the border to mexico. feel like maybe they haven't thought this analogy through.

maybe he meant, "really interested in current developments in antisemitism"

of course that piece of human garbage in the newyorker link above is a PUA almuni

Yeah, and as google mentioned, assoc. w/ GamerGate.

All these guys came out of that swill of PUA/Men's Rights/RedPill/GamerGate shit, where their strongest political motivation is borne from their own fucked-up psychosexual pathology.

As much of the Chapo guys & others make fun of these schmucks for only being incel keyboard kommando schmucks(which they are and deserved to be mocked for), the problem is that they also need to be kept an eye on, because of what they can lay the groundwork for. Dave Neiwert's been righting about this stuff for years, about how enough white nationalist shitheads have been moving to parts of Idaho to start having an affect on local politics.

Similarly, you had the militia movement decades ago being just a bunch of guys playing army in the woods and exchanging copies of the Turner Diaries until some of them organized to the point of doing the Oklahoma City bombing. I remember this part clearly since one of their associates(Mike from Michigan, I think) wound up being a janitor in my freshman year dorm in Ann Arbor.

(Ann Arbor being only about 40-50 mins S of Brighton, where the Klan HQ was rumored to have relocated)

Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself.

And rolled his body up in a White House carpet and carried it out to a park! People have forgotten just how insane much of the 90s was.