the alt-right

I'm from the UK, but have spent most of the last 15 years living abroad, before moving back at the start of 2016 with an immigrant wife and two mixed-race children. Right now I find it hard to find any angle on UK politics which isn't a variation on despair. I sometimes try to post things on social media about how immigrants are a good thing and how we should be generally much kinder to the disadvantaged, but there's no point - half the people I know agree with me, but have nothing further to say, the other half will say nothing - maybe they agree, maybe they don't, but either way they are not going to be persuaded. With US politics, at least plenty of people are ready to engage with stuff - sometimes in an appalling way, yes, but at least there is an argument to be had instead of this fucking tutting and mumbling about "electability" or "genuine concerns".

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/trolls-for-trump

late to the canadians following us politics more than their own country's discussion but...

surrey, criticizing black lives matter though they live in rural saskatchewan, tweeting incessantly about Trump though their twitter profile says something like "proud canadian, kelowna b.c.".

otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.

― *-* (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:56 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't too far from the truth though. step outside the lower mainland and go to abby (see racist incident recently), kelowna, or anywhere rural or in the interior, and you'll see far more conservative canadians, real rednecks

your facebook feed is just the people you attract and befriend based on your own opinions and worldview

most of my friends are leftists to centrists. one was a closet conservative until i pressured him into talking about (canadian) politics, because he would always stay quiet or didn't talk about it. he was born and raised in west van. but his core circle of friends votes ndp or liberal

i've met canadians that believe the only way to real change in canada is if the us changes, because canada always follows whatever the states says. i don't agree with that, but there are some key issues that canada will just follow the us's lead on, but that's why chretien was so popular

Worst is when Canadians talk about their own politics as if we have a Presidential/Congressional system, e.g. I've heard someone talk about 'voting straight-ticket'.

― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:32 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is just unacceptable. i'm not permanently in vancouver anymore so i've forgotten a few things and have been following the us election closer, but this is basic information canadians should know! people are spending too much time watching american tv and not enough on interacting with the town/city/people around them

of course that piece of human garbage in the newyorker link above is a PUA almuni

Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself. That's hilarious.

...and gamergate hanger-on

xp

He suggested talking points for his followers to deploy, such as “If the alt-right is racist, is Israel racist, too?”

this is a stupid thought bc engaging w/ these ppl on any level is a waste of time but it's maybe amusing to note that if the US guaranteed immigration to religious compatriots like they do in israel they'd basically be opening the border to mexico. feel like maybe they haven't thought this analogy through.

maybe he meant, "really interested in current developments in antisemitism"

of course that piece of human garbage in the newyorker link above is a PUA almuni

Yeah, and as google mentioned, assoc. w/ GamerGate.

All these guys came out of that swill of PUA/Men's Rights/RedPill/GamerGate shit, where their strongest political motivation is borne from their own fucked-up psychosexual pathology.

As much of the Chapo guys & others make fun of these schmucks for only being incel keyboard kommando schmucks(which they are and deserved to be mocked for), the problem is that they also need to be kept an eye on, because of what they can lay the groundwork for. Dave Neiwert's been righting about this stuff for years, about how enough white nationalist shitheads have been moving to parts of Idaho to start having an affect on local politics.

Similarly, you had the militia movement decades ago being just a bunch of guys playing army in the woods and exchanging copies of the Turner Diaries until some of them organized to the point of doing the Oklahoma City bombing. I remember this part clearly since one of their associates(Mike from Michigan, I think) wound up being a janitor in my freshman year dorm in Ann Arbor.

(Ann Arbor being only about 40-50 mins S of Brighton, where the Klan HQ was rumored to have relocated)

Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself.

And rolled his body up in a White House carpet and carried it out to a park! People have forgotten just how insane much of the 90s was.

Cernovich thinks of himself as a trendsetter - he says, "What they don’t realize is that someone like me is perceived as the new Fourth Estate." - but is he actually doing anything but amplifying back to his audience the beliefs and ideas they already want? he couldn't, for eg, tell them tmmrw something diametrically opposed to their worldview and maintain his credibility. he's not the new walter cronkite - no one's trusts him. they just trust him to tell them what they already want to hear.

if cernovich came out tomorrow and said, you know i think i was wrong on this point about women in gaming, he'd be a "cuck" instantly

The piece calls the McInnes show alt-right but in a run down of right wing groups McInnes said he felt uncomfortable around the alt-right's racism and he dismissed gamergate. But the few people on the list I knew that he seemed to approve of were no good.

McInnes is an out-and-out white supremacist so i don't know what he dislikes about the alt-right except maybe that they're more vulgar than he'd like

I think he said something like "I have a mixed race wife and they're too into racial purity for my liking".

Can't believe McInnes is the same guy who hung around with alt-comix guys like Dave Cooper and Pat McEown.

So in other words McInnes is one of these guys distressed by the tone of the discourse

http://www.zumcomics.info/Archive/zum!10/pqr.html

Can you imagine Julie Doucet and James Kochalka praising him today?

Has he always been an out and out white supremacist? If he's the so-called godfather of hipsters and managed to surround himself with lefty cartoonists and comedians it's hard to imagine he hasn't changed a bit.

I don't think pat and Dave would have put up with that kind of thing. I remember them sort of talking about him in those days the way you talk about your annoying but beloved buddy. (Knew pat and dave at the time but never met gavin)

i guess he doesn't use the term 'white supremacist' about himself- but he loves talking about the bell curve and black on white violence and all the things self-described white supremacists also like to talk about. but maybe he likes the jews and asians more than your average st0rmfr0nt3r?

He definitely blossomed into a full shitbag at some point

apparently he loves amy schumer which surprises me. i guess he's kinda iconoclastic? still a douchebag no doubt but i like him lecturing stupid taki commenters

"The Trump-supporting American alt-right media believes Ed Miliband was a ‘hit-man and fixer’ for Hillary Clinton"

http://evolvepolitics.com/the-trump-media-have-outed-ed-miliband-as-a-fixer-and-hit-man-for-hillary-clinton/

This is so brilliant. I can imagine British guys sympathetic to alt-righters being unable to swallow this.

loooool

this seems relevant? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/01/the-ruthlessly-effective-rebranding-of-europes-new-far-right

It's a bit more subtle than that article, some of the parties, like the Sweden Democrats, has a neo-nazi past, while others, such as Danish Peoples Party, come from old populist movements, specifically anti-tax movements. Also, I honestly don't believe the populists will transform politics. The article says Nasser Khader was wrong when he said 'influence' would weaken DPP, but that's a quirk. It's not influence that the populists can't deal with, it's responsibility. In Norway, the populists (called Fremskridtspartiet) are on the retreat, after having went into government as one of the first populist parties, and done a shit job of it. At the last election, by all rights, the DPP should have had the post of prime minister, they were the biggest party on the right, but they didn't even want to get into government. They wanted to stand aside, get anti-immigration measures passed, and basically not have to deal with complex economic questions. That's been impossible, though, as the right-wing coalition now includes some very rabid libertarians, who wants to pass austerity measures and save up for tax cuts for the rich, which the DPP agreed to in the past, back when they were minor partners, but can't agree to now without losing their socialist credentials. So they're already in trouble, and on top of that they've just been caught in a giant EU scandal concerning millions of kroner that has been misspent. The problem is they're lying hypocrites, and that will eventually be exposed.

I'm not sure the alt-right is all that relevant to what's happening in much of Europe. Possibly more so to Raheem Kassam's abortive attempt to take over UKIP - he's closer to the contrarian, young, meninist, @PepeHimmer1488 demographic than most and i have a feeling that he wouldn't have won even if he was white. He is the direction Arron Banks, the main donor to UKIP, wants to go in, but the party is largely made up of weird old conservatives who don't particularly get it.

The FN has quite a lot of the youth vote but, as the article says, has been trying to campaign more to the disaffected on the myth of economic competence than in the past. Like UKIP, it has a weak base and, if the reports of the party being bankrupt and scratching around for loans in the UAE are to be believed, close to no financial backing. As Frederik says, the biggest problem a lot of the parties have is that, beyond one or two vaguely credible figureheads, they're mostly eccentrics and incompetents who can't actually deliver anything when in positions of authority.

The big risk is that more serious libertarian figures - your Peter Thiels rather than Arron Bankses - start piling enough money in to the parties to enable them to pivot away from protest votes and fig-leaf conservatism and towards an ostensibly competent technocratic fascism but i think they're probably happy enough with the status quo for now.

https://s11.postimg.org/isojehuw3/Cw_Hwm_Z9_XYAE12_Mk.jpg

lol

This has been brought up a few times but someone here must have an idea. How does the alt right manage to get onto everyone's youtube recommendations? What are they doing that every other group desperate to send a message isn't doing?

Newest such video on my youtube front page is "Varg says it best again: how to deal with muslim terrorists" from a channel called "Alt Right Finland".

If you watch a Varg video, it's too late to bolt the door; he'll infest your recommendations forever

I watched some of those men's rights videos with the bald guy and the skulls and my youtube recommendations were littered with that for over a year, no matter how many times I clicked on "not interested" or whatever. Currently nothing in my recommended like that, but it was like a plague for a while.

xxp - I had that, but with Bill Burr videos. I don't remember ever even clicking on a Bill Burr video and no amount of 'I don't want to see this' would stop the recs.

I don't get much Burzum music recommendations somehow but I'm sure I'll get many more alt right videos quoting Varg

Been watching a lot of Burr videos on youtube recently, enjoying a lot of it. The way some of his fans label his videos you can tell they want (NEED) him to be far more prejudiced and conspiracy crazy than he is. They do this with Chapelle too and probably a lot of other comedians. Like you have a 10 minute video and the title is something like "comedian explains why women are worthless and totally DESTROYS them" and there's just one brief joke about women in the whole thing. Now those fans are calling him a traitor for making fun of conspiracy nuts and racists.
I did hear him say he used to be into conspiracy stuff though.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 12:47 (one month ago)

From a stand-up comedy thread.

Burr keeps mocking Trump and calling him a sex offender with bigot supporters yet people are still making videos with titles as if he's a Trump supporter. A new one with a title states Burr supporting Trump but in the video he's doing the opposite.

i wonder if that's an attempt to troll trumpers?

I don't know but it seems like an awful lot of people somehow feel betrayed and utterly shocked that Joe Rogan, Sam Harris and Bill Burr hate Trump.

Sam Harris hates Trump?

oh wait nm i knew that. i was thinking of sam hyde

jesus actual christ

https://twitter.com/TheRickyVaughn/status/793614382538317824

legit surprised rogan is antitrump

ah yes famous alt righer MRA poster child and serial murderer elliot rogers at the bottom

This has been brought up a few times but someone here must have an idea. How does the alt right manage to get onto everyone's youtube recommendations? What are they doing that every other group desperate to send a message isn't doing?

Newest such video on my youtube front page is "Varg says it best again: how to deal with muslim terrorists" from a channel called "Alt Right Finland".

― Robert Adam Gilmour

i'm not sure, but they're definitely gaming the youtube recs system hard. i wish youtube would either fix it or let me turn off their recommendation engine. i watch sam bee, italian film soundtrack videos, and metroid speedruns and from that my recommendations are flooded with alt-right bullshit. (it's probably the metroid speedruns.)

they also have reddits algorithm found out which is why /r/the_donald is always dominating. that and redditors are into that shit.

It's weird how some things just don't get recommended at all. I watch loads of old film trailers but never get them recommended.

i watch sam bee, italian film soundtrack videos, and metroid speedruns and from that my recommendations are flooded with alt-right bullshit. (it's probably the metroid speedruns.)

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, November 2, 2016 1:36 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha was gonna say no mystery at all

youtube can probably live with not fixing their algorithms because there's enough good content on there that i'm not going to flee the site (though if someone wrote a plugin that blocked youtube's recommendation engine in-browser i'd sure as hell install it), but i have pretty much abandoned reddit. if your site doesn't regulate hate speech, it turns into a hate speech site.

reddit, outside of the_donald and the MRA subs (and metacanada – the canadian the_donald) seems p universally appalled by the_donald to me. there's been a few discussions making it to the top about how they must have some up-vote bots rigged and on overdrive for that sub.

i'm now thinking about how tough it might be to build a custom youtube recommendation plugin. i have the same thing happening with anti-liberal stuff during the last election – for some reason if you were watching a liberal party vid, it would start recommending all these nazi/hitler videos. really fucking weird.

when i've cruised through that cesspool i've seen links recommending that the 'centipedes' screw with search results...somehow. like, GIS 'rapist' and it'll come up bill clinton or whatever. i have no idea how this actually works irl

reddit, outside of the_donald and the MRA subs (and metacanada – the canadian the_donald) seems p universally appalled by the_donald to me. there's been a few discussions making it to the top about how they must have some up-vote bots rigged and on overdrive for that sub.

― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall)

yes, most of them are more Richard Russell types