the alt-right

would think nobody protesting, nobody getting tickets is probably the best response

is there any reason to call these people "alt-right" when "neo-nazi" would suffice?

XP ...or an audience completely made up of women and POCs with fixed death stares.

Arent a lot of the socalled alt-right people just bascially trolls, anyway? Not so much the big players but the followers. They think the reactions they get are FUNNY. Wouldnt matter what side it was, as long as its women and weak-assed pansy cucks, they'd say anything shitty to get a rise.

Things can arise from the lulz - I'm reading a 'biography' of Anyonymous at the moment from 2013 and it's clear that trollishness can definitely exist alongside emerging politicisation (though wow it's an uncomfortable read this year).

Trolling is def an important part of the alt-right's DNA (and not just the followers, Milo always seems to me to be saying and doing things to get a rise out of people as much as furthering any "philosophy") but there's not "just" trolls about it - the temptation to dismiss them as "just" trolls, to conceptualise trolling itself as inherently ignorable or harmless, is where the danger also is.

And it sort of does matter which side it is because, well, they're the ones who picked the nazi side.

is there any reason to call these people "alt-right" when "neo-nazi" would suffice?

― k3vin k., Monday, November 21, 2016 11:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I've been reading the arguments on this and I can definitely see why some think "alt-right" is a dangerous shiny rebranding that makes them more acceptable - I don't think it should ever be in any doubt that "alt-right" is a subset of "neo-Nazi" and not a brand new thing or a break from it. "Alt-right" seems useful in terms of describing their aesthetic and methods though - the radicalisation of white male frustration online, the very "dapperness" that makes an aesthetic break from unreconstructed skinheads and to me, seems necessary in capturing why their appeal is particularly dangerous now.

the whole "european" thing is some weird semantic thing - have they all agreed to call themselves that or something?

this fucking guy in his nazi colour scheme, what vile creeps:

https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images/2016/11/21/heil-trump-this-is-the-alternative-right-body-image-1479752283.jpg

is there any reason to call these people "alt-right" when "neo-nazi" would suffice?

― k3vin k., Monday, November 21, 2016 5:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've personally flipped that switch already. Fuck whatever media-friendly label they prefer.

I really want to organize some sort of response where a bunch of people get tickets, show up, and totally ignore him by knitting, doing homework, napping, reading, etc

Was thinking about something similar when Channel 4 interviewed him last week - by all means, get him on the show, just ask him as inane questions as possible, e.g. "who's your favourite Beatle", "what's yr golf handicap" "have you ever tried homemade cream cheese" etc

Arent a lot of the socalled alt-right people just bascially trolls, anyway? Not so much the big players but the followers. They think the reactions they get are FUNNY. Wouldnt matter what side it was, as long as its women and weak-assed pansy cucks, they'd say anything shitty to get a rise.

― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, November 21, 2016 9:28 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Partly this; partly keeping "I was just being funny" as a defense if they might face consequences for their words and/or deeds. In which case they then smear their targets for not having a sense of humor and/or not knowing better than to feed the trolls.

"I was just kidding" is a refrain I'm very familiar with hearing from the people I've known who suffer from personality disorders.

There was a Danish news-parody show that once had an interview with a young guy from the populist right, who'd started a group protesting left-wing bias in the media. The first question was 'Can you tell me about your new group, you right-wing asshole?'

Not for nothing are Danes known worldwide as the kings of comedy.

Anyway, ThinkProgress says they won't be using "alt-right" anymore: https://thinkprogress.org/thinkprogress-alt-right-policy-b04fd141d8d4

There was a Danish news-parody show that once had an interview with a young guy from the populist right, who'd started a group protesting left-wing bias in the media. The first question was 'Can you tell me about your new group, you right-wing asshole?'

― Frederik B, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:07 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is the B for Basic?

is there any reason to call these people "alt-right" when "neo-nazi" would suffice?

― k3vin k., Monday, November 21, 2016 5:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've personally flipped that switch already. Fuck whatever media-friendly label they prefer.

― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:30 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like to think of them as Trunk Club Fascists

I'm not sure what to make of some of the labelling. Many people including myself were using alt-right to refer to a much wider array of modern right wing bigotry, including non-whites who use some of the same ideas as the white nationalists and repurpose them to suit their own prejudices.

"I was just kidding" is a refrain I'm very familiar with hearing from the people I've known who suffer from personality disorders.

― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:11 PM (four hours ago)

Er, wtf Old Lunch?

I think the reason why I've used 'alt-right' as a term rather than neo-nazi is similar to what RAG is saying. It was something that encompassed a lot of online spheres, from PUAs to st0rmerz to channers to whoever else was being a fucking dickhead. Now that the entire real world is crumbling, though, I'm with people who want to call them what they are.

afaics, the whole "alt-right" label is just a rebranding of plain old white supremacy and neo-Nazism, for the same reason Comcast is trying to rebrand as Xfinity, because the old brand is hated and reviled. Using this new friendlier brand name just obscures their connection with white supremacy, which benefits the neo-nazis and no one else. The news media should be flayed for playing into the hands of these deplorable people. God, what a world we live in now.

they're mostly just entitled white-terrorist fuckhead dweebs and should be treated like any other terrorism suspects

except with more waterboarding

I'm kidding, they should be treated like Breivik their Viking lord, allowed to study for a degree from the comfort of prison

I don't even know. Put them and Isis in a big pit then check back forty years on, see if they've forged a new society together

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3954508/The-worrying-rise-Britain-s-modern-day-Hitler-youth-Neo-Nazi-referrals-Government-s-deradicalisation-programme-overtaking-Islamist-extremism-cases-parts-UK.html

really though what the western world needs is an overhaul of education systems, mental health access, employment law and much, much besides

in the meantime, wage fucking cultural hell upon these cunts until they don't exist as a movement

We've got our own little tinpot Breivik here in the UK.

That article's headline should read 'SUCCESS! Our xenophobic hate-campaign reaches YOUR CHILDREN!'

Of the Mail, I mean

And I don't care how trenchant that is

... the Mail and all the others.

xps @Aimless, that's a great point, Clear Channel did the same thing - I didn't realize they were iHeartRadio until fairly recently.

Thing is though, don't some people who aren't white nationalists refer to themselves as "alt-right"? Like "I'm not white or racist, I just hate political correctness and women.

When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Donald Trump knows the word 'disavow'

Thing is though, don't some people who aren't white nationalists refer to themselves as "alt-right"? Like "I'm not white or racist, I just hate political correctness and women.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:16 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nazi-adjacent
Nazi allies

"I was just kidding" is a refrain I'm very familiar with hearing from the people I've known who suffer from personality disorders.

― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:11 PM (four hours ago)

Er, wtf Old Lunch?

― emil.y, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 12:24 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sorry, I was referring to PARTICULAR (and pointedly not ALL) NPD/BPD suffers I've known who didn't take personal responsibility for their actions or mental health and whose behavior reminded me of what j.lu described. That particular defense just hits a little close to home. It certainly wasn't meant as a blanket assessment, though, so I apologize if I caused offense.

ok deep breath.

there's specific recent history to these terms as well as overlap as well as slippery definitions of each.

the term 'alt-right' is not entirely generic; richard spencer ran (runs?) a website about white nationalist concerns called "alternative right" and has done so since the late bush years iirc? the idea that it was about old-right or explicitly white-right ideas that then-dominant bush-era neocon or theocon politics had kicked out

"white nationalist" is probably the best catch-all term but it doesn't encompass everything and everyone. "nationalist" does etymologically contain "natal" ie questions of birth, lineage and belonging which are the key obsessions that mainstream american conservatism keeps out of sight.

the high-toned term "neoreactionary" was bandied about a few years ago (with catchy web-contraction NRx), largely for people coalescing around blogger 'mencius moldbug.' this scene is much nerdier and less 'nazi'

quite a number of years ago john derbyshire suggested the term 'dissident right' to mean roughly all this stuff but it never took off

not sure how it's resonating elsewhere but at least insofar as the_d0nald is concerned at least one thread exists where ppl are either really upset or just certain that it's a long game being played re: trumps announcement not to prosecute Clinton when he comes into office.

i am interested to see how these communities react to some of the more obvious walk-backs trump takes on his variously insane campaign promises

i like the term fascist, but in an american context a lot of these people are old-right/libertarian descended -- ie it's not the totalized state but the totalized anti-state as utopia

I'm sticking with "radical white terrorists"

Hey, as long as they consort with neo-Nazis, I'm comfortable tagging them all with that label.

as long as actual neo-nazis are using this label to try and buff up their image/play down their murderous race fantasies i think it's probably good to use a label that brings out the real nature of their "ideas", and let the non-nazi alt-rightists work it out for themselves

sorry for same post as Old Lunch

xps sadly i don't think Trump will get any significant blowback from his most diehard supporters for broken promises. it'll get blamed on someone else.

yeah i agree with that totally.

xp NV i mean

Yes, NV's is a perfect unpacking of my perspective.

yes. OTMFM. All those "non-nazi" alt-righters are free to create some other space for themselves and distance themselves from literal nazis.

i think successful political nicknames are typically loose, simple, ideologically useless and openly derogatory. something like 'wingnut right' but you'd want a specific new coinage. these sensible or technical labels just legitimize, whereas it's better to be dismissive.

also the rise of the Hitler state was achieved thru a broad coalition of right wing interests. i'm sure there were scumbags who thought anti-semitism was a meaningless sideshow who were backing him right thru into WWII

http://www.whitepages.com/name/Richard-B-Spencer/Whitefish-MT/8fqyxgh

just saying.