The Who Vs. The Kinks

Early Kinks albums aren't much cop... and as for lousy production, just ask Ray Davies about them.

A Quick One has 'Boris The Spider', 'Heat Wave', 'So Sad About Us' and 'A Quick One, While He's Away' ... the rest can gtfo.

The Kink Kontroversy has 'Till The End of the Day' and 'Where Have All The Good Times Gone', plus gems like 'The World Keeps Going 'Round', 'When I See That Girl of Mine', 'Gotta Get The First Plane Home', 'Ring The Bells' ...

Shel Talmy produced the first three Kinks and the first Who album. A Quick One was "produced" by Kit Lambert who shouldn't have been anywhere near a studio, IMO.

He did a far better job on the first Who album tbh.

Though, I think he'd probably produced the first three Kinks' albums by that time!

A Quick One has 'Boris The Spider', 'Heat Wave', 'So Sad About Us' and 'A Quick One, While He's Away' ... the rest can gtfo.

― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican)

boy, the us pressings never got anything right, did they? the us press of "a quick one" omits "heat wave" in favor of "happy jack"! yeah because god knows we can't possibly do without "cobwebs and strange"...

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

Who could do without "Cobwebs and Strange" ?

Not me for a kick off.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

Yeah, no wit, charm, or songs by The Who 🙄

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

I'm not a huge Tommy fan although I appreciate it a lot more now than when I was a teenager. Live, of course, not studio.

Shit, sorry for all the pentimenti in that post!

Shel Talmy produced the first three Kinks and the first Who album. A Quick One was "produced" by Kit Lambert who shouldn't have been anywhere near a studio, IMO.

― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:19 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He did a far better job on the first Who album tbh.

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:27 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Though, I think he'd probably produced the first three Kinks' albums by that time!

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:28 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not sure there's a major qualitative difference between the production on those albums but would venture to say that a big part of why The Who Sings My Generation sounds so good is because the Who, as a band, sounded so good.

it seems a pity that none of the Kinks 70s concept albums got adapted into movies (though apparently Bobcat Goldthwait is still hoping to film Schoolboys In Disgrace)

The Kinks of any era by a huge margin for me.

The Who usually have only two or three songs I love in their albums whereas the Kinks have two or three songs I don't like in theirs.

After bingeing on The Who recently, both live and studio, I have to say they were about a hundred times better live than on record.

Well that's another matter The Who live > almost every live act

Of course I wasn't around to see them live but seeing videos on youtube give you an idea of how good they were live.

it seems a pity that none of the Kinks 70s concept albums got adapted into movies (though apparently Bobcat Goldthwait is still hoping to film Schoolboys In Disgrace)

― soref, Thursday, November 24, 2016 2:36 AM (one hour ago)

i'm still bummed there isn't a black and white film version of "arthur." apparently ray davies actually finished the script for a proposed movie, but it never got produced -- it's too bad nobody has ever tried to revive it.

script stuck somewhere between the moon and new york city

After bingeing on The Who recently, both live and studio, I have to say they were about a hundred times better live than on record.

― Iago Galdston, Thursday, 24 November 2016 03:06 (eleven hours ago) Permalink

Yeah, I couldn't possibly agree with this more... in fact, I don't really think they ever got it right on a studio album in terms of capturing their live sound. Maybe Who's Next and Quadrophenia come close, but even they come nowhere near Live at Leeds or even any of the bootlegs. The version of Tommy on the expanded Live at Leeds exposes Kit Lambert's production on the studio album for the flat thing it is.

this is tough, as a kid i would've said The Who. feels like they are about even w mid-late 60s output, esp when you consider The Who actually recorded way more music than was released on albums. non-album singes, outtakes and b-sides being some of the best stuff they did.

the studio definitely failed The Who to a bigger degree than The Kinks. but there is still a lot of great stuff and i prefer that cruddy sound anyways to the cleaned up arena rock sound they got in the 70s.

"Sell Out" vs "Something Else" would be a hell of a rock block.

I mostly don't like being shouted at, so probably the Kinks, though I prefer the Who's musicianship.

it did occur to me last night that you could split the difference, and take The Jam and have the best of both worlds :)
voted the Who

I was just thinking that a word I would associate with the Kinks but which never in a gazillion years would you do likewise with the Who is 'charm', lol.

'Dogs' is quite Kinks-like, i.e. it has charm..

Maybe that's why Townshend doesn't like it.

The thing about the Who, and I guess it's Townshend, is the empathy and generosity of spirit that permeates the music for me, in giving voice to the concerns and feelings of his audience. I feel like there's a meanness or nastiness to a lot of the Ray Davies worldview that would have appealed to me when I was 28 but at 48, it's just not so appealing. Maybe it's there and I just don't remember it, haven't listened to them in ages

Pretty much disagree with all of that!

I'm probably wrong about the Kinks, I should listen again, but wrong about the Who? How so?

You're not wrong, it's your opinion, I don't have such high regard for Pete Townshend personally. One of best guitar players ever, of course.

OK, thanks

have tried for many years to understand the appeal of the Kinks. it felt good to give up. I don't get them & never will.

I'm probably wrong about the Kinks, I should listen again, but wrong about the Who? How so?

― Iago Galdston

I don't think you're wrong about the Kinks. I love them, but Ray, you know, this is the guy who wrote "Hatred". He could be pretty vicious, although he was always meanest to himself and Dave...

Townshend has, I think, a more generous spirit, but also has the Meher Baba thing, which I look at with a great deal of suspicion.

Davies is the prototype bitter fuck imo. Townshend is a hippie but every once in a while he actually reaches apotheosis.

What's wrong with being a bitter fuck? A whole deal of rock icons are/were bitter fucks.

i love the kinks, like LOVE them

but i can't have them go up against the Who and live to tell the tale.

Ray is an incredible songwriter but I feel like every member of The Who pushed the boundaries of their "job description" so far that they kinda changed how we think of all those jobs, for better or worse - not just Pete, but Rog, Ox and Moonie. To me they were like music Magellans ... some of those maps didn't exist before

Not to downgrade the Kinks... it's just I get kinda passionate/nutty when I talk about the Who

The Kinks. They had better tunes although they never made an album as awesome as "The Who Sell Out" tbf

Because Keith Moon played "yump dump yump dump yabbadaba yump dump" at least once in every song and STILL sounded like a profound genius, the Who were a more complete deepening of music hall traditions and edge this.

xxxp Agreed. I was reassuring Galdston that he wasn't crazy for hearing a nastiness in the Kinks. But Davies (outside of Something Else) isn't top tier bitter fuck for me.

I think yall are overstating the bitterness of Ray Davies.

And seriously overstating the 'generosity of spirit' of Pete Townshend.

Voted The Who without hesitation - Sell Out is one of my favourite albums of all time, the early pop/freakbeat singles are classics and the stadium/concept stuff up to and including Quadrophenia is some of the best rock of its era. I disagree about the production complaints too - Who records from '67 onwards sound great to me, especially Tommy/Who's Next. Crystal clear and punchy. I should add a caveat though that I'm not much of a live albums guy so am less likely to compare them unfavourably to Live at Leeds or whatever.

I like The Kinks fine but Arthur is their only great album and I don't care about anything they did post-'60s bar a couple of songs. The music hall element is really off-putting especially, even something like 'Dedicated Follower of Fashion' I find really grating.

Also in terms of the difference between Davies and Townshend as writers, Davies comes across like a smart guy with interesting observations about life and other people, whereas with Townshend it feels more like he's still working through things. There's a lot of confusion and inner conflict that comes across in his songs and I guess that just appeals to me more. I wouldn't quite call it generosity of spirit but he had more of a desire to communicate with his audience I think.

And seriously overstating the 'generosity of spirit' of Pete Townshend.

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.)

he hit abbie hoffman in the face with a guitar, i think that was an act of profound kindness and generosity

Also in terms of the difference between Davies and Townshend as writers, Davies comes across like a smart guy with interesting observations about life and other people, whereas with Townshend it feels more like he's still working through things. There's a lot of confusion and inner conflict that comes across in his songs and I guess that just appeals to me more. I wouldn't quite call it generosity of spirit but he had more of a desire to communicate with his audience I think.

― Gavin, Leeds

townshend sounds like a guy who's working through things, ray davies sounds like a guy who's pointedly avoiding "working through things"

That's one of my problems with Townshend, it all ends up a bit Roger Waters, or vice versa. But, each to their own. He has got a sense of humour though, which is a good thing.

Thank you, Gavin, that is indeed more what I meant rather than generosity of spirit

And I remember the endless music hall numbers to be a real turn off, too. Like, there are a lot of them, right?

I think I like early Kinks a lot more than most people on this thread. It's true the early albums have a fair amount of filler but some of the singles and B-sides from '64-65 are just brilliant and to invoke the dreaded "influence" probably v important on garage rock/"freakbeat" not to mention the Who themselves.

Or to put it another way, All Day And All Of The Night >>> I Can't Explain.

All Day And All Of The Night = first RAWK tune

You Really Got Me, too

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Hahaha awesome gifs

Moony eating the flower!

too bad The Kinks don't have their own doc a la "The Kids Are Alright". best music doc ever.

We should do a rock docs poll

Who is singing harmony on "The Seeker"?

Are you talking about the harmony on the last verse?

My guess on that is Townshend.

Yes