the alt-right

iirc it's supposedly bc daesh sounds like some other Arab word that means 'crushing underfoot' or something so it's like a pseudo-homophonic critique

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/amp/paris-attacks-what-does-daesh-mean-why-does-isis-hate-n463551?client=safari

Apparently it also means "bigot," and they hate that part

like i'm sure people who believe in chopping off the heads of infidels yezidi adults and selling their kids into slavery are v concerned about being called bigots

I don't know about that, these sorts of wankers tend to be pretty thin skinned.

ok but they don't have diversity and open-mindedness as their purported aspirations

What I've been seeing on american friend's facebook walls is that, post-Bannon apointment, the Trump voter's in people's lives are now very invested in a narrative where the media is smearing the alt-right and, yeah, they're very adamant that the alt-right is NOT neo-nazi/racist. Mind you I mostly doubt that the people putting forth that argument are "from" the alt-right; more likely generic Trump supporters who'd never heard of it and now have swallowed the party line on the term.

Is the attitude that names are names, but Breitbart is supported by the right people (IE Trump clearly trusts its owner) and attacked by the wrong people?

Calling the 'alt-right' neo-Nazis isn't about trying to get their goat but rather stripping the glossy finish off of their media-friendly moniker of choice. Stories about the 'alt-right' grant them an air of legitimacy, like they're just another perspective that's as valid as all the others. Beetbort is just a publication, in the words of our president-elect. Calling them neo-Nazis will hopefully dissuade some people from even dipping a toe in those shit-filled waters.

... how?

like when people get called racist and they go "ooooops what was I thinking sorry!!!!"

like i'm sure people who believe in chopping off the heads of infidels yezidi adults and selling their kids into slavery are v concerned about being called bigots

― Mordy

people who do that kind of stuff have a really, really strong need to justify themselves and get very defensive if you suggest that maybe they aren't good people. you're not talking about a bunch of '82 metallica types going out there saying "Fuck yeah, I'm evil!" ('82 metallica a good example here, actually- changed up the four horsemen of the apocalypse because they didn't want people to think they liked war. Death, plague, and famine, on the other hand...)

people who do that kind of stuff have a really, really strong need to justify themselves and get very defensive if you suggest that maybe they aren't good people.

tbh

xp good people yes but their definition of good ppl isn't our definition and their definition doesn't include tolerance for divergent lifestyles

we would like the use of the word nazi to emphasize how fucked up the person/idea the label is being applied to is, but in reality it is just a license to ignore the person applying the label

... how?

― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:12 AM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You don't honestly think that the general populace are less likely to explore news outlets and political movements if they've been branded with the label 'neo-Nazi' as opposed to 'alt-right'? Granted, I'm more cynical about that assertion than I would've been a year ago but I still think it holds water.

Listened to Richard Spencer's speech and its fantastical projections of "unity" among white people, and was thinking that the great irony is that it was liberalism that allowed the creation of a "white" race that included irish people, germans, slavic people, anglo-saxons, etc., basically completely flying in the face of everything that Nazi ideology was about. Maybe Spencer thinks the horse has left the barn on that one, but his absurd concept of a "white empire" in North America struck me as, above all, childish. Diversity is messy and complicated and there are tensions, but that's just reality. There is no unified ethnostate on the planet. Middle Eastern countries are in the midst of civil wars. Israel is divided between religious and secular, mizrahi and ashkenazi. China and India have dozens of ethnic groups and languages. Diversity and tolerance aren't always easy, it's just that the alternatives are always worse.

You don't honestly think that the general populace are less likely to explore news outlets and political movements if they've been branded with the label 'neo-Nazi' as opposed to 'alt-right'? Granted, I'm more cynical about that assertion than I would've been a year ago but I still think it holds water.il

Well, the populace have already heard that the alt-right is a thing, so no, I don't think that - I think there's a lot of people who will hear EG "Gamergate are neo-Nazis" and when they investigate and find out that Gamergate are not in fact neo-Nazis, they will be told "See, the media is out to tar us all with the same brush". Speaking purely from the point of view of "There are a lot of people out there with some fucked up views, let's not radicalise any more of them than we have to", I don't think alt-right = neo-Nazi is helpful.

The guy who coined the phrase "alt-right" and started a publication with that name is a literal neo-nazi Andrew.

He just gave a speech in which he quoted nazi propaganda in german, called for creation of a white empire in North America, referred to whites as a "conquering people," and had an audience full of people doing nazi salutes. What is your criteria for calling someone a neonazi?

Those meet my criteria - you're aware that the term has drifted a bit since then?

I was reading something recently where someone in a White Power fan group did one of those hokey genetic background things and found that they were significantly genetically "Eastern European" and someone else was like, "LOL UR NOT EVEN WITE" so................ o_O

Divisions are inevitable. If they actually somehow "cleansed" the United States of everyone not "white" by the arbitrary new standard I'm sure that you'd see an increase in tensions between eastern and western european descent, between catholic and protestant, etc.

slate says alt-right still the right term to use:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/11/22/is_alt_right_still_all_right.html

'deplorables' might be even better tbh, really brings out the fact they're the enemies of decency

nope nope nope

"deplorables" was one of the biggest disasters of the campaign please never utter it again

Listened to Richard Spencer's speech and its fantastical projections of "unity" among white people, and was thinking that the great irony is that it was liberalism that allowed the creation of a "white" race that included irish people, germans, slavic people, anglo-saxons, etc., basically completely flying in the face of everything that Nazi ideology was about.

Some of those where included with open arms, some less enthusiastically.

"deplorables" was one of the biggest disasters of the campaign

yeah should've gone harder

Why not just call them fascists if alt-right is too mealy-mouthed and neo-nazi makes people roll their eyes?

*goes back to lurking*

bc they're not all authoritarians. some of them are libertarians.

Okay, okay, I'm willing to surrender 'neo-Nazis' if we can all agree to start calling them 'low-T betas' instead.

Insult them on a level where they actually feel insulted.

Re: ThinkProgress vs. Slate.

From long-term perspective, its really the risk of normalizing white supremacists vs. the opportunity of tying the entire conservative movement to this anchor in the minds of an entire generation.

One thing about the "alt right" is that they try to soften their rhetoric to bring in more suckers. Like "nationalism" instead of "white nationalism". I lurk on sites like Yahoo and I would estimate, from the language, that more than a quarter of the ideas floating around are really "alt right". Not very many conservative opinions in comment sections are moderately conservative - they're hysterical, paranoid and hateful.
And the alt-right generates memes for these people.

sadly old lunch otm

They loved deplorables. They probably wouldn't like incompetents, inferiors or impotents but such names would never catch on. But I very much doubt that kind of name calling is going to make things better.

This is science fiction writer Eric Flint on the culture wars within the genre but I think it goes for all this alt-right stuff

What is it about right-wingers, anyway? They keep accusing everyone else of being victim-mongerers obsessed with identity politics but they’re the ones who prattle endlessly about their supposed persecution [“victims are littered across the SFF community”] and nobody generates identity-labels like they do. Start with the term “identitarians” itself—did I mention the clumsy prose?—and move on to “social justice warriors,” “SJWs,” “CHORFs”, oh, it goes on and on.

Those lousy social justice warrior identitarian cliquist holier-than-thou obnoxious reactionary liberal fanatics keep trying to reduce people to categories…

Ah…yeah. Right.

I think that Slate article is right about how "neo-nazi" will backfire.

my exp with "chiraq" is that saying "dont call it the alt right" just changes the name from "alt right" to "dont call it the alt right"

bc they're not all authoritarians. some of them are libertarians.

― Mordy, Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:58 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this distinction flips around on itself pretty quickly in this country

i guess if Nazi just means someone we don't like then call them Nazis. if it means a particular racially-based authoritarian political ideology that fetishizes the 3rd Reich then there are def Nazis in the alt-right but they do not make up the entire alt-right.

ha by my reckoning they have a racially-based authoritarian political ideology with, like, really ~insightful critiques~ about what didn't work about national socialism

Insult them on a level where they actually feel insulted.

This. Call them cucks or cuckservatives.

https://twitter.com/colincampbell/status/801629493345583104

Inceletarians?

This. Call them cucks or cuckservatives.

Yeah, maybe not

what's the downside of "white nationalists"? the fear that you legitimize white nationalism? because it's already pretty fucking legitimate. when you have half of a country who thinks it's "racist" to say that black lives matter, i mean... what the hell can you do with that?

for me the important thing is to deny people the delusion of middle ground. to establish that, for instance, mark zuckerberg is a white nationalist sympathizer.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/new-google-chrome-extension-guarantees-users-will-never-see-phrase-alt-right-again-1048086777

I've got a theory that they are actually part of the main audience for cuckold porn, with the racism, the staggering insecurity about their masculinity, women as either cheating ice queen megabitches or vulnerable property to be degraded.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 October 2016 02:27

I just assumed this was the case. I need a US map with overlay of cuckold porn popularity stat.

― "raw buttin' these toilet seats" (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 01:06

Are they embarrassed about fantasizing about being the thing they insult others for? Are they secretive about it? If the porn industry stopped making this stuff to stop being racist, would they get angry and complain about political correctness?

Call them cuckold porn fans?

Where's Wilhelm Reich when you need him?

Reminds me of that racist guy in Boardwalk Empire who forces Purnsley at gunpoint to have sex with his girlfriend, then Purnsley kills him.

If the porn industry stopped making this stuff to stop being racist, would they get angry and complain about political correctness?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:44

And if it happens would they make Cucked By The Cucks: SJWs Fucked My Wife?