Mordy iirc and i can't be arsed to do the research right now but firearms were equally free in the UK before and after the War of Independence, i seem to remember UK firearms controls coming late in the 19th century tho i could be wrong datewise
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
hey SV Spiked says National Action isn't a terrorist organization so i don't know man
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
pretty sure you'll go to jail in germany for walking down the street in nazi regalia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86aYou can't display a Daesh flag, either.
― Wes Brodicus, Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
Ben Shapiro was on Dave Rubin's show and said Yiannopoulos chickened out of a debate with him. Also that Yiannopoulos believes all taboos should be broken to fix everything, so Shapiro asked Rubin to dare Yiannopoulos to say the N-word on his show. Rubin said he would do that but I'd be surprised if he did.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 18:22 (seven years ago) link
http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?t=11453
The response to me posting that article.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
he seems pretty bright - you should invite him to post on ilx. we could use some ideological diversity.
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
He also called Ibrahim R Ineke (a comic artist I'm friends with) less than an ant or a fish because he's a Muslim. Advocated bombing muslims and he's into "racial realism"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:46 (seven years ago) link
He seems to identify as Persian - am I misreading him?
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:57 (seven years ago) link
I asked him now but I have no idea if he'd go for it. He does identify as Persian and he's not white.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:59 (seven years ago) link
ppl who identify as 'persian' include some of the world's most committed racial supremacists. they claim to be the 'master race', the 'original western race' etc
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
lol @ mordy's first post there
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:01 (seven years ago) link
Yeah it's where the term aryan comes from but I wonder bout his tiepoihS bBB
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:35 (seven years ago) link
Religious beliefs
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
It's strange, two years ago he was obsessed with eastern mysticism and now, all that stuff on the thread I linked.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link
He said he's not joining here, he's started his anti-Islam stuff against Ibrahim and the thread will doubtless be deleted within a day. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
I wonder bout his tiepoihS bBBtoo
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:23 (seven years ago) link
ha i wonder if it's better to leave that as is without explanation & allow u to fill it w/ yr own esoteric meaning or admit that i was composing it on Zing in the rain while trying to get my recalcitrant daughter into her carseat and that was the result
― Mordy, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:28 (seven years ago) link
def thought 'tiepoih' was a cool hebrew concept. the rest is just suggest ban, baby
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:29 (seven years ago) link
Kids, eh?
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:29 (seven years ago) link
better than pets amirite
― Mordy, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:45 (seven years ago) link
more like the alt-shite
― Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:14 (seven years ago) link
The heck is that messageboard
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:17 (seven years ago) link
It's the Thomas Ligotti forum. Ligotti is one of the biggest figures in modern weird/horror fiction and he got a book in penguin classics recently. He's probably the most famous anti-natalist and he's big on pessimism too. We discuss all that and lots of related stuff. The Persian guy (or a moderator) deleted most of his posts in the thread, so it makes no sense now.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:33 (seven years ago) link
Nick Land is also into all that stuff I think. I think those guys are few and far between but nihilist posturing often goes together with fascistic ideas.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:40 (seven years ago) link
Is N1ck L4nd famous for something other than being NRx/fascist?
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:09 (seven years ago) link
I think he takes some stuff from Lovecraft and Ligotti.
Phil Sandifer written a thing tying a lot of this stuff togetherhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027287602/neoreaction-a-basilisk
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:19 (seven years ago) link
whenever I read something written by/about Land, I think of this comment left by an old collegue of his on Simon Reynolds' blog (under an profile of Land and the ccru that Reynolds wrote in 1999):
One of the last times I saw Nick was in the Coop on Earlsdon high street; in his basket were about six Pot Noodles, and a cabbage ("because I don't want to get scurvy").
http://energyflashbysimonreynolds.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/renegade-academia-cybernetic-culture.html
― soref, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:31 (seven years ago) link
I bought that Ligotti Penguin book and couldn't make it through half the stories. I'm a big Lovecraft fan, but Ligotti lives deep up his own ass, as far as prose style goes.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:35 (seven years ago) link
I never cared for him, either, but he seemed to be big with the Current 93/DiJ/neofolk people, who've never had any weird or unsavory political connections.
― rudy githyanki (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 18 December 2016 04:59 (seven years ago) link
That's true but Ligotti doesn't have anything approaching fascist views himself.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:06 (seven years ago) link
maybe not but the failure of contemporary "pessimist" philosophical voices to address the fascist implications of their conclusions makes their work markedly inferior to that of cioran.
The only remaining anti-humanist ideology is fascism. Of all existing political movements, only a fascist would dare to express the belief that "no lives matter".
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:12 (seven years ago) link
Anti-natalism is about reducing suffering til there is none left. But these people carry no expectation that it's likely to happen. No reason pessimism can't be compassionate.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:22 (seven years ago) link
oh, it's certainly possible to be antinatalist and _not_ be fascist. much antinatalism is apolitical, as politics is inherently a human enterprise. at the same time, antinatalism is a form of nihilism, and nihilism is more closely allied with fascism than it is with any other political form. there's a reason there's so much more nsbm than there is rabm.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:31 (seven years ago) link
Unlike anarchy, communism just isn't considered that cool unless you turn it into the ridiculous fascist supervillain thing. And anarchy is only considered cool when it's about chaos and irresponsibility.
It's not easy linking exciting metal imagery with responsible politics.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:48 (seven years ago) link
I think you're selling metalheads short to say that their ideology is based, first and foremost, around "coolness". I would argue that there is a genuine disconnect of values between the essentially pessimist philosophy adopted by metal at large and an economic/political belief system based around the worth and dignity of the working class, and that disconnect can be very clearly heard by attempting to listen to RABM bands.
If someone holds a belief system that assigns human life negative value, as many antinatalists do, they are going to face a strong temptation to implement those beliefs in a political sense. And prescriptive antinatalism is genocide.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:19 (seven years ago) link
always surprising that more antinatalists and misanthropes don't do something about the one part of the accounts sheet they do have a moral right over
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:27 (seven years ago) link
Rushomancy- Fair enough about the first part, who are the best RABM bands?
Don't know about the second part. The anti-natalists I'm familiar with probably wouldn't find that attractive and don't have the energy to get that involved in politics.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:30 (seven years ago) link
I'd want to separate anti-natalism from nihilism. While anti-natalism does assign a negative value to human life, that's compatible with assigning a positive value to human beings. Anti-natalism can proceed from a demand for human wellbeing which the world isn't equipped to satisfy. It values human beings enough not to want to inflict a painful and compromised life on them.
Anyway, it seems to me that the big fascist movements have historically been highly optimistic, not pessimistic - but optimistic towards a perverse set of goals.
― jmm, Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:35 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour
i honestly don't think terms like "best" apply to rabm. here's the list of rabm bands i went through:
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/WeirdoYYY/the_essential_rabm__red_and_anarchist_black_metal_/
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
"always surprising that more antinatalists and misanthropes don't do something about the one part of the accounts sheet they do have a moral right over
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague)"
i suppose it is surprising if you haven't actually read any antinatalist thought. cioran for instance spends a great deal of his writing talking about the deferral of suicide. it wouldn't be correct to say he was "anti-suicide", as he fully intended to kill himself after the alzheimer's diagnosis hit, but the illness progressed too fast.
"I'd want to separate anti-natalism from nihilism. While anti-natalism does assign a negative value to human life, that's compatible with assigning a positive value to human beings. Anti-natalism can proceed from a demand for human wellbeing which the world isn't equipped to satisfy. It values human beings enough not to want to inflict a painful and compromised life on them.
― jmm"
i would agree about differentiating antinatalism from nihilism, but an essential part, i would argue, of philosophical antinatalism (as opposed to practical antinatalism, which is far more widespread and less overtly acknowledged) is that human beings fundamentally lack the capacity to create a world which can give human life positive value - that the negative value to human life is not a temporary, but an intrinsic condition. this philosophy is difficult to differentiate from nihilism.
fascism absolutely presents as an optimistic movement, but fascism, ideologically, is built on lies as well as on perversity. for the true believers, fascism is built on annihilation.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 20:08 (seven years ago) link
Why would antinatalism have anything to do with fascism?
― Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link
Fascists view lives instrumentally -- that is the nature of their antihumanism. Antinatalists are the opposite of that. They look at the individual's quality of life as an indicator of its worthiness. Their position also usually doesn't involve imposing their views on others iirc. They dont tend to advocate forced sterilization
― Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 21:24 (seven years ago) link
I am weakly antinatalist in that I think it's bad to be alive and I don't want to bring anyone into existence but I don't have like a political program attached to that
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:09 (seven years ago) link
Had a look at that RABM list and although I'm sure most of them are nice guys I get the feeling some are probably Stalin worshippers and racist too.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 21 December 2016 14:31 (seven years ago) link
can it be mere coincidence that antinatalist is an anagram of attain stalin?
― the year of diving languorously (ledge), Wednesday, 21 December 2016 14:42 (seven years ago) link
Reading thru Jon Robson's _So You've Been Publicly Shamed_, and came upon a bit in the middle about 4chan and pre-gamergate stuff. You can see where all the seeds lie that would Bloom a couple years later.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Sunday, 25 December 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
a friend told me about that book, gotta check it out, thx for the reminder!
― flappy bird, Sunday, 25 December 2016 22:20 (seven years ago) link
Probably worthwhile to also track down his followup interview with Monica Lewinsky
Also, this:
http://nerdist.com/nerdist-podcast-jon-ronson/
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Sunday, 25 December 2016 23:22 (seven years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/milo-yiannopouloss-cynical-book-deal?mbid=social_facebook
― akm, Friday, 30 December 2016 23:17 (seven years ago) link
http://www.avclub.com/article/walking-turd-martin-shkreli-smacked-face-actual-tu-248505
― "I must believe that my charm was not in my ass." (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 January 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link