Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

ALSO as I think we talked about a little on the podcast thread, it seems harder for them to find their footing in a Trump world, now that the irrelevant centrist punditry has actually been rendered irrelevant.

I'm trying to catch up to the Trap House but these things are like 90 minutes long. I'm on episode 4.

I've found that playback at 1.25x speed can be your friend.

i couldn't get through an episode of this, even though i generally agree with them

it just... isn't funny at all, or insightful. probably because the things that are funny and insightful in sad leftist twitter aren't funny outside of sad leftist twitter

Whiney, just listen to the Freeway Ross Douthat episode then skip to current events. Discussing the conventions doesn't really work as entertainment six months after the fact.

being a completionist about a politics podcast is the most onion a/v club thing i've ever heard

I tried to listen to an episode but I just found it unbearable, but I realize I should have listened before I read that interview they did with Paste, which is hands down the most embarrassing thing I read last year: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/07/chapo-trap-house-are-the-vulgar-brilliant-demigods.html

i've encountered enough asshole know-it-all leftists on twitter (including at least one of the chapo guys, i think) that i haven't exactly been eager to give this a try.

"I haven't listened to this but I don't like it based on reading an article about it" is the most boring and non-contributing thing you can possibly say.

Except I did listen to it?

Like, "I tried to listen to an episode" is the first goddamn thing I say in my post

They do definitely reflect the worst of leftist Twitter at times. Like it's clear from recent episodes their way of continuing in Trump World will be to still hammer Clinton relentlessly land act like centrist democrats are worse than actual fascists. They are really mad at Hillary for losing to Trump when all I heard from them for months was that she was just as bad.

The show works better for me when Matt or Amber bring up something that show they've done a but more homework on this stuff.

My particular fave episodes are stuff like having on Adam Curtis, Matt Karp on his book on Antebellum American politics setting up race science and eugenics shit trickling down to Breitbart, or even the pilot ep of sorts where they excoriate the weird mentality behind Michael Bay's "13 Hours."

xp p sure they're mad at hillary for beating bernie with the weight of the DNC behind her, propping up trump as an easy win and then running an embarrassing general election campaign built on "of course i'll win"

and given that this toolbag seems to be the presumptive 2020 favorite of the DNC, which has not shown any indication of shifting platform aside from a few pockets of support for keith ellison, keeping the fire under the democrats might be the only thing that saves us from 4 additional years of actual fascism

Nerderik P.

The "weight of the DNC" that Bernie's ramshackle campaign couldn't overcome but Obama could somehow. We can blame this vague "rigging" for Bernie's loss (and not acknowledge that maybe he should campaigned in the south) but can't admit the Comey letter had an effect on Hillary's?

After the primary was pretty much over they called the differences between Trump and Clinton "a wash". Matt Christman perpetuated the deluded idea that the Bernie delegates at the Nevada caucus were "disenfranchised", just as one example. Granted it wasn't the job of the left to get Hillary elected (I'd have personally preferred Bernie for a number of reasons) but you don't get to act mad at her campaign for losing when you perpetuated the equivalency narrative throughout the campaign. Many Dems have been able to acknowledge that she was a vulnerable candidate that we were stuck with because not enough people ran but it seems like it would literally kill many on the left to just say "we got carried away".

Also, encouraging people to spread "Bernie Would've Won" memes is pretty asshole-ish and counter productive but I don't know maybe stopping actual fascism will require purging People who don't hate Hillary but I could be wrong.

but you don't get to act mad at her campaign for losing when you perpetuated the equivalency narrative throughout the campaign

You kind of do? I listened to the post-DNC podcasts and a lot of commentary revolved around things that seemed iffy even at the time when it seemed like a lock - trotting out Mike Bloomberg, the lineup of neocon security/military people lining up for Hillary, etc.. It goes back to 2000/2002 - if you're going to present Republican-lite as the face of the party why wouldn't the voters who are into that just vote for real Republicans? They were also right back then on focusing on decency being poor judgement.

Were the Hillary fainting jokes in bad taste? Sure. That's still the most tiresome part of the podcast, but it's also a fairly small part of it.

Funny thing about Bloomberg is we was one of the few convention speakers who got kind of a positive reaction from the Bernie or busters there when he mentioned that he described himself as an "independent" what or John Lewis got anti-tpp chants. There was definitely messaging problems w HRC's campaign but given the consequences of the election (potential loss of social programs for one) people with visibility on the left seemed reluctant to encourage voting for the obviously better choice of the corny old lady and pickedvthr campsign apart for things all high level campaigns do becuae they were probably confident she was going to win anyway.

Also, encouraging people to spread "Bernie Would've Won" memes is pretty asshole-ish and counter productive but I don't know maybe stopping actual fascism will require purging People who don't hate Hillary but I could be wrong.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, January 4, 2017 3:23 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think spreading memes has ever been productive in any direction

seriously didn't realize there were still people aside from high ranking democrat pols and frederik who think the answer to defeating trumpism over the next 4 years is to double down on the 2016 strategy

this is some gluing humpty dumpty together again shit

that Bernie's ramshackle campaign couldn't overcome but Obama could somehow

yeah it's almost like these are two different candidates running on entirely different platforms with entirely different relationships to the DNC

how close are you to running out the "of course the DNC sank bernie, he wasn't a member of their party!" argument that was briefly popular 8 months ago in an entirely different america

Yes, Mike Bloomberg is a well-known figure on the socialist lecture circuit. Hugely popular on the left. Yuge.

It is a reminder that the one thing worse than jokes about Hillary's medical problems is the narrative around BernieBros and "Bernie or Busters" where whatever ills that pop into your head can be ascribed to them.

The fundamental disconnect here appears to be your belief that the left's issue with Clinton is that she was "corny."

xxp obvs

I never said "everything was perfect w HRC's messaging except that leftist twitter and this podcast didn't like it". I'd have preferred a different candidate but Hillary won the primary, she was obviously the better candidate compared to Trump. When you vote for a candidate you are voting a coalition into office. Making equivrlrncies beyeeen her and Trump was ridiculous then (kind of offensive actually when you put in perspective ) and looks even more ridiculous now. Maybe you can post the photo of them at a party together I've seen a million times and I'll withdraw that.

We have social media, we know the left got "carried away" I don''t see the point in denying that base level reality. I mean people were literally crying st the convention because they thought Bernie would get the nomination somehow.

kinda like liberals were hoping beyond hope that the Electoral College would swoop in and save the day - shit happens when you get emotionally invested.

I don't know what false equivalencies you're talking about, I've heard the Chapo people repeatedly talk (without irony) about Trump and the GOP's fascism, the worst they've said about centrist Dems is "managerial neoliberalism."

it's the duty of all good dirtbag leftists to shut up and keep compromising with (read: unquestioningly supporting) managerial neolibs. it's the new realism, baby.

I mentioned it before, a direct quote, I think it was Christman who called the choice between Trump and HRC "a wash". They used the example of Harlow's "wire monkey" experiments to bemoan the false difference between the two for a couple of episodes. Will Menaker was pretty insistent that HRC was intent on invading Iran which reminds me of Michael Tracy's now mocked POV that Trump was the peace candidate between the two , guest Jeremy Schahill seemed to take him back when he said that he thought Trump was likely to invade a country and she wasn't. Amber said on twitter that the DNC leaks had evidence of "massive corruption" which on one level I have to wonder is that disingenuous or just dumb? But I have a particular ire for people on the left who say those leaks constitute actual whistleblowing, you're basically continuing a right wing smear when you do that.

I genuinely like the show a lot. It's one of my favorite podcasts I find most of the analysis good. There are just these points of obstinance the left has that are troubling toward the end of unifying the party and there is no hope of the primary is relitigard forever. Smugly tweeting "Bernie Would Have Won" at people might be kind of shitty I don't know.

What's the point of politics if you can't be smug

just listened to the adam curtis episode. good stuff. can see the point now. remains to be seen whether they can sell a valid vision of a chapo trap house world though

Also in this sketch Felix name checks “misogynoir,” a word made up and used exclusively by grad students who don’t have enough characters left to type “misogyny against black women.”

Weird dig from the writer re 'exclusively by grad students' - too scared to put 'pretentious' or what?

Side note that term was invented BY a Black woman (actually queer Black feminist writer Moya Bailey) who presumably is entitled to describe her own experience and see if people like her agree. Clearly at least some do. Conversation over.

I still listen to this (the free show) though I'm annoyed by how often they can't seem to get an episode going and fall into the podcasting stereotype of being guys in a room cracking each other up with in-jokes while not being very entertaining.

Also, can't wait for the one dude to retire his hilarious Hillary impression, which is just an oddly emphasized madlib over and over: "I may not be (90s cultural figure) but I can really (phrase associated with that figure)."

I do laugh at the stuff they read sometimes, but it seems like lengthy re-enactments of Taibbi close-reading a Tom Friedman book, except that the people they attack are often twitter nobodies.

The clip of Michael Rappaport dissing them and their "coffee smelling breath" was funny though.

being a completionist about a politics podcast is the most onion a/v club thing i've ever heard

Listening to a podcast is the most Onion a/v Club thing and I'm embarrassed enough as is.

can someone explain to me what the hell michael rappaport's deal is? like i only recently figured out he did that ATCQ documentary thing (haven't seen it) and is a comedian/actor that's been in a bunch of stuff, but apparently he's also the broiest man alive and beefs with his teen son on twitter?

if this is too much of a sidebar i'll take it elsewhere

slogging through a pre-election podcast sounds fucking miserable

Yeah the post election EP was enough misery for me

and given that this toolbag seems to be the presumptive 2020 favorite of the DNC, which has not shown any indication of shifting platform aside from a few pockets of support for keith ellison, keeping the fire under the democrats might be the only thing that saves us from 4 additional years of actual fascism

― qualx

obviously there's room for enlightened disagreement, but from my perspective running a podcast where you call pundits "retards" is not an effective way of holding the democrats' feet to the fire. i'm getting a little bit sick of "resistance" movements that are run like the fuckin no man's sky kickstarter. yes, i'm very impressed with their dank meme stash, but perhaps now is the time to move in, run candidates with actual values, get people to the primaries, and take over.

sounds hard

it's not, really. bunch of prince hals playing at being guttersnipes. hey, you clever white boys, the world is yours. it has always been yours. come and take it.

Whether or not I agree with all rhetorical tactics, spreading the word re the uselessness of the pundit class and the Dem establishment is worthy work imo. They can do a lot to improve and become more effective critics and I hope they do.

They're basically doing what a bunch of bloggers have been doing for a decade or so, except they record it now in addition to typing it. I don't know why kicking off the revolution is their responsibility all of a sudden.

Seriously, if a bunch of dudes want to be the Dice Clay version of PJ O'Rourke in their spare time, they shouldn't be accountable to a fucking thing.

you know the rules boys, unless you devote every last second of your time and every last ounce of your strength to the struggle then you're not allowed to criticize anything

because nothing speaks to sincerity like being a career pol

Sweet, glad someone made a thread for these guys. Friend of mine turned me onto them a month before the election. The discussion about essentializing black ppl and calling them "magical" a couple episodes ago was great. & ripping apart the game theory guy. Weird intersection of radio worlds the other day with Rapaport, Nainan, and Adomian featured.

I got really on board about ten eps ago and have since almost caught up on every episode.

if you want a good intro listen to any episode about caleb, that is some of the funniest shit ever... poor caleb

dont really care about this podcast but 'bernie would have won' is a good meme

"seriously didn't realize there were still people aside from high ranking democrat pols and frederik who think the answer to defeating trumpism over the next 4 years is to double down on the 2016 strategy"

It's insane that I got this response. It couldn't be more of a reply to something I absolutely did not say, and I took pains to avoid being misread as some kind Hillarista argument. But it's pretty much indicative of the obstinacy of leftist twitter orthodoxy I brought up in the first place. It's like when you mention that Bernie didn't get the votes of older POC in primary, I get that it really bothers people to hear that (and it doesn't mean that he couldn't have gotten those votes in the general or a better run primary campaign where he acts like he's running to win from the start and not a "proving a point" campaign). The "rigged" narrative is toxic and seems childish to perpetuate. What do we mean when we say that? That the votes aren't real? We are aware that there's a vocal contingent of Bernie supporters that think Hillary won because "voter fraud" right? So yeah "carried away" it shouldn't be impossible to admit this.

ooh look a second politics thread

can someone explain to me what the hell michael rappaport's deal is? like i only recently figured out he did that ATCQ documentary thing (haven't seen it) and is a comedian/actor that's been in a bunch of stuff, but apparently he's also the broiest man alive and beefs with his teen son on twitter?

if this is too much of a sidebar i'll take it elsewhere

― mh 😏, Wednesday, January 4, 2017 9:50 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't have the answer, tho I thought the teen son beef thing was somehow faked? idk I guess id like to know the deal too. he was a gd actor circa 20 yrs ago

ooh look a second politics thread

Sad lol, I swear this was not my intention

re Yung Chomsky

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/4527936

https://www.patreon.com/posts/89694571

Matt's in hospital for something that will require "a significant period of recovery". Plus his daughter is due to be born on Sunday.

xp yeah that was floating around along with some other details of him in prior ventures

still pretty funny on the name coincidence

really awful news about matt christman :(

I hope it’s one of those things that’s urgent but also relatively low risk. Sounds like the timing couldn’t be worse

:( love to matt.

from the sound of the update, looks good but not out of the woods.

Will reading a prepared statement will always sound ridiculous. It took me a minute to realize it was serious and that the emergency medical situation was not the birth of the kid.

Looking forward to Matt recovering and coming back to the show to read all the tweets wishing him dead

lol. yeah would be a good replacement for riffing on the Desert Storm trading cards. The streams had been really good lately though.

now that I’ve listened to the update it sounds pretty bad. hoping for the best for the Christmans

[matt christman livestream]

I don’t think class consciousness will be attainable in our lifetimes. But I do think the seeds for an egalitarian society are already planted, we just have to water them.

*5 sec pause, looks at chat*

No I haven’t tried the new BK Spider-Man burger

— city steps transit advocate (@ohip13) June 5, 2023

Positive news

welcomed little baby christman into the world this morning, and she is perfect. today is a great day!

— amber rollo (@ambercrollo) September 24, 2023

TED TALK: “I had a stroke, I experienced ego death and collective consciousness. I realized we are one with the universe.”

ME: “I experienced that Dracula was cool.”

— crisp mattman (@cushbomb) November 25, 2023

Get well soon, Matt. Posting on Twitter probably won’t help this process, but…

S4 of Blowback is really good

TBH I'm kind of shocked that something this well-researched and professionally done was co-created by a member of the Chapo extended universe.

Christman has been recovering in public on Twitter, which I would posit as not being the best idea, but one wonders if they’d be able to stop him

idk these are some good tweets

CINESTE CORNER: it the characters was feeling good. He was clearly “I Feel Good”thus the theme I feel good.

— crisp mattman (@cushbomb) December 10, 2023

over/under on number of copies Amber's memoir will sell - 25

The latest episode of Trueanon was pretty great and had ILX alumni Max as the guest

Yeah, and they got into internet overexposure but also problems that educators are seeing with schoolchildren w/r/t screens and literacy

Kingfish, where can I find your podcasts? I lurk enough here (for 20+ years omg) but don’t keep up with the meta stuff like DN changes but you must have mentioned it at some time

My own show is kinda defunct but was called “Giving the Mic to the Wrong Person”

You can find it on iTunes and SoundCloud:

http://soundcloud.com/givingthemic