Why are science fiction and fantasy books so crappy?

the genre's in kind of a dire state now - and a lot of my favorite stuff doesn't always get classed/marketed as sci-fi (Victor Pelevin is a prime example, but also some of Moorcock's recent stuff - which doesn't even get printed in the US - or things like Kelly Link and Jonathan Lethem). I didn't really dig Richard Morgan but there are still some decent big names that seem to get some level of attention - Gene Wolfe, M. John Harrison's last couple of novels (Light and Nova Swing).

altho Alex otm in general - the genre has pretty much always been awash in tired concepts, hackneyed writing, and terrible pandering

every genre has though, i just think sci fi's are more obviously ridiculous

I've been tending more towards fantasy than SF recently; I still enjoy Erikson even though he's becoming more and more florid with every book he writes and I'll always rep for Tad Williams.

"If you like to underline (like I do) or write in the margins (which I think I find inexplicably annoying), you're screwed if you have to erase."

Haha this is a weird behavior that I appreciate especially when coming across in used trashy books. Some dude who wrote 'baba booey' all over this one section of a bukowski collection totally made it worth reading. Thanks, anonymous stern fan!

I whole-heartedly endorse crap uneraseable paper for the sake of preserving these reading enhancements.

i read a lot of fantasy back in high school, i read a shitload of those terry brooks 'shannara' books

haha I read two and a half Shannara books before going "wait, no"

His "Magic Kingdom For Sale" series was way better IMO.

Was that Black Unicorn book one of those? Someone gave that to me out of order, I think.

yeah i think i got through 3 shannara books, which felt like a shitload. it was basically a watered-down LOTR, right? i even remember some black-clad horsemen pursuing these midget heroes or something.

That was only one watering-down of many.

Was that Black Unicorn book one of those? Someone gave that to me out of order, I think.

Yeah, that's the second one. I don't remember a word of it now but I must have enjoyed it at the time since I read the first four of that series.

yeah i think i got through 3 shannara books, which felt like a shitload. it was basically a watered-down LOTR, right? i even remember some black-clad horsemen pursuing these midget heroes or something.

IIRC the biggest Tolkein rips were in the second book, which was also the best one (and the only one I'd consider rereading).

Agreed on the second. (Actually that had the least rips IIRC.)

i read countless crappy fantasy & sf books from about grade 7 - 11, shannara included.

oh haha I am thinking of the first book plotwise

lmbo, i remember now:

Skull Bearers, "winged black destroyers"[14] who "sacrificed their humanity"[14] to become the Warlock Lord's most trusted servants. They fly around at different points of the novel, demoralizing troops. They are usually seen only at night, though one does fly during the day over the city of Tyrsis on the last day of the battle. One found Shea, Panamon and Keltset and almost killed them before Shea could bring the Elfstones to bear.

this thread seems pertinent: I have just read the wrongest scene in a fantasy book ever written.

Orl Fane, a "Gollum-like"[19] Gnome who "covets the Sword as Gollum does the ring."[19] He stole the Sword and forced Panamon, Keltset and Shea to track him down. He was driven insane and killed by the Warlock Lord after he took control of his mind and forced him to try to take the Sword.

You forgot the deep pit into which the wizard fell doing battle with a demon. Yup.

Mind you, in terms of ripoff stakes, nothing but NOTHING beats McKiernan's Iron Tower Trilogy. All he did was change the names.

this is the one i remember, it was definitely the longest book i had read at that point (think i was in middle school): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wishsong_of_Shannara

oh yeah that one

i remember those books as all being pretty entertaining but shameless

also read so many of these fuckin' books:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_Realms_novels

oh how embarrassing, I read The Cleric Quintet in COLLEGE

Ugh I wish all those books would transmogrify into John Crowley's books. Where's that "small wish" thread?

http://www.penguinsciencefiction.org/index.html

Monkey Planet!

http://www.penguinsciencefiction.org/images/download.gif

Okay for some reason I can't select the image, but the Demolished Man cover is fucking awesome.

yeah I can't figure out how to post single covers either

Nevermind. Just replace thumbnails with images:

http://www.penguinsciencefiction.org/images/2536_ALFRED_BESTER_The_Demolished_Man_1966.jpg

That's a demotivational poster waiting to happen

my friend matt made me read the thomas covenant books when i was in the 9th grade. i never read fantasy. mostly horror as far as genre stuff went. i thought it was cool that he was a leper. i think i made it thru 4 of them and then i stopped. so i still don't know what happened to the dude.

i thought lord foul's bane was a cool name for a book too.

I think it's awesome that the tagline is "Together we could rape the universe."

That's gonna sell like hotcakes!

'I think it's awesome that the tagline is "Together we could rape the universe."'

Did anyone else hear the laverne and shirley theme song playing when you read that?

since someone brought him up, are the later john brunner books worth picking up? dude wrote so much stuff. anyway, at the used book store around the corner they have a ton of his later paperbacks. like, mostly 80s, maybe some 70's stuff.

i'm still intimidated by my copy of stand on zanzibar. i wanna read it, but i'm kinda slow and it looks like i'd have to clear my schedule to read it. (though i appreciate the fact that he modeled the book on the u.s.a. trilogy by dos passos. one of my faves.)

(i've mostly read his short stories from the 50's and 60's and i like those a bunch.)

excellent username fodder imo

I find Stand intimidating too. Shockwave Rider, The Sheep Look Up and Squares of the City are all amazing and less uh long.

I read Stand on Zanzibar a few years ago. It was okay. I was kinda irritated at the way the narrative just skips over large chunks of critical action - conflicts are set-up and then resolved in a completely unsatisfying manner.

Would still totally pick up Shockwave Rider if I ever see a copy

Have you read the second two I recommended Shakey? They are both amazing (much better than Shockwave Rider actually despite not being used for Royal Trux song titles).

not yet - they have copies of Squares of the City at Borderlands tho, which I am planning on picking up

Yeah I got it there for like $2. Brunner wrote like 100 books or something so there is probably more great stuff there. I've got two or three more sitting on shelf (including Stand.)

stand on zanzibar was my favourite book for a period of time as a teenager but i do not want to look at it again because i do not trust said teenager's aesthetics v. much

interesting that the marber grid never really took hold of penguin's SF line.

Ah, apparently Facetti decided all those covers also had to be composed of a pre-existing abstract painting. Hum.

oh, and I'll rep for the first 2 Richard Morgan books, tho I was disappointing he dropped the hard-boiled noir vibe partway thru the first book.

Still, stories involving xenoarcheology are always fun for me, be it Rendezvous w/ Rama or Lucasarts' The Dig.

Can anyone recommend any other xenoarcheology tales? I've already read Ringworld, and some of you protested loudly when I wanted to start a thread on New Wave sci-fi, like when Playboy would run short stories, which of course would feature the intrepid hero ducking some greenskinned Orion slave chick or something.

don't know what everyone's complaining about. fantasy at least is doing just fine. this book http://www.tachyonpublications.com/book/New_Weird.html is amazing (and the cover isn't tacky, nor the spine or type chintzy), especially the stories by steph swainston and alistair rennie. the thread m. john harrison kicked off the vandermeers reprint is like the best ilx one that never happened

Can anyone recommend any other xenoarcheology tales?

My favorite by a million light years is a short story: R.A. Lafferty's "Continued On Next Rock" - it's in one of Damon Knight's Orbit anthologies.

Also, er, At The Mountains Of Madness

Also, er, At The Mountains Of Madness

bah! i'll wait for Guillermo's version