the alt-right

That is a libelous characterization of Mordy's posts and I wish it was actionable.

Nah, it's pretty clear Mordy is defending Moldbug? I mean, of course not the parts about how it's sorta okay to machinegun people like me and my high school friends, it's the other parts that are 'interesting + frames things in provocative ways'. And I am compartmentalizing, I really am. But sooo sorry if I lose my temper around that piece of shit Moldbug, but I fucking hate that guy.

Mordy does not think Moldbug is "not that bad" or "on the right track." He reads him because he thinks it is valuable to understand one's ideological opponents, as he has pointed out many times.

Like it or not the West is experiencing the rise of racist nationalism. We can either seek to understand these new movements in order to defeat them or we can just scream that they are Nazis and hope they go away on their own. If the left ends up losing definitively to these alt right morons it will be because we were too lazy to fight this kind of thinking head on.

Sure, and I'm glad if you get something out of it, I just don't feel bad for 'throwing whiny tantrums' when we're discussing people who think I should be gunned down.

Always hard to tell if Frederik's chronic misreadings are guided by intentional bad faith arguments, ignorance, or misunderstandings. Also hard to care about which it is at this point.

Xp

Yr gonna banned again if you keep this up

I remember that day. I remember calling my Norwegian friends to hear if they were okay. I remember checking facebook, seeing the RIP's for friends who had died. Everyone I knew were safe, but one guy - who works for the Arbejderpartiet - had the windows in his office blown out, while he was there. I remember my Norwegian roommates crying for weeks afterwards. And I remember when I read Moldbug's blogpost on Breivik. And that despair, that rage, that hatred, that sorrow, that is not ever going away. Breivik is the 9/11, or the Orlando Massacre, for people like me, of my age. And Moldbug is a piece of shit, and I just felt blinding rage every time a new post in this thread ticked in. And I'm not going to feel bad about that.

Then I calmed down, and tried to have a real conversation. So sorry if I lost my temper a couple of times. But it's raw.

If there's anything you should feel bad about it's your non-stop character assassination of other posters and poor reading comprehension.

Everyone otm

fred, conflating finding someone interesting to read w/ agreeing with what they wrote is imho a sign of a very immature mind - one that can only get value from what reciprocates their own opinions and thoughts. u may get some value in general from disentangling the two - for one it may give you the freedom to have civil conversations on topics w/out assuming yr interlocutors are engaging in bad faith (a sure sign that you yourself are engaging in bad faith). treesh gives the most pragmatic perspective for reading things w/ which you disagree - to know what the enemy is thinking (and to refine your own arguments) - but there can even be a kind of pleasure in reading something coming from a dramatically different perspective from your own; even from a perspective that you find heinous. i've read antisemitic thinkers extensively - to know what and how they think and just for the raw experience of encountering a perspective that is so different from my own that it's alien; i've even in some ways had some pleasure in a horror movie kind of way in reading something that sent chills of discomfort and fear down my spine. i'm maybe unusual in that regard but i don't think it's a totally valueless way to approach life. what i notice about how you argue on ilx is that you present as someone who a) believes they know more than everyone they are talking to and b) makes little effort to understand the ppl they're speaking to. beginning to separate your moral perspectives from your intellectual perspectives (something you (jokingly?) disavowed on a different thread) might be a good way to start that. learn the difference between a logical argument and a moral argument and know when you're arguing one or the other. you mention 9/11. i was living in NYC on 9/11 - experiencing that trauma made me more interested in reading the works of radical islamist thinkers. i wanted to know what kind of ideology could convince ppl to murder thousands of people. and i wanted to really understand it - such that i knew it well enough that i could give over their argument myself in a convincing manner.

anyway, on a personal note i think it's pretty obvious i'm not defending moldbug on any other ground than that i think he is an interesting writer. in this very thread when discussing him w/ sund4r i stopped to insert reasons why i have objections to his philosophy, as if such a thing is necessary on ilx (but there's value in that too - explicitly spelling out where the points of contention are, why you can't follow him into the ideological abyss). moreover, i don't think you think i'm defending him either. none of our arguments above - about whether authoritarianism was ubiquitous throughout history, or whether there was meaningful objection to the idea of a sole ruler sovereign, or however you want to construe it - had anything to do w/ defending moldbug or moldbug's ideology. it was just a tedious nitpicking detour that exposed a lack of reading comprehension. if you really thought i was defending moldbug on ideological grounds presumably we could've spent all this time discussing that - instead of you inserting it in some last minute attempt to tar yr interlocutor after all other arguments were dismantled. it's a pretty embarrassing thing coming from someone w/ such high self-regard. for yr v own sake you should bring yr A-game and not this bullshit.

say this for moldbug - he's a much more innovative and interesting thinker than you are (despite his championing an ideology that has been out of fashion for centuries). your "everyone i knew was safe but i was worried about them so therefore no quarter" perspective is some weak shit that should really be below you bc it's essentially an "i would've been passing the twin towers on 9/11 if i had visited New York a week earlier" type story w/ the minor added exoticism of having to do w/ Breivik and not 9/11. "i almost knew someone who was thinking about visiting the site where a tragedy occurred and therefore i must accuse ppl who disagree w/ me of arguing in bad faith." curious whether you've ever actually had a conversation w/ someone that wasn't just a thinly veiled attempt to either a) prove your own intellectual superiority or b) prove your own moral superiority. the ironic thing is that in trying to do so you end up proving the precise opposite - that you're a sloppy enough thinker to make basic reading comprehension errors, assume the meanings of words, and construct strawmen to argue with, all while demeaning the ppl you're talking to for no reason but to bolster your own moral authority. a shitty stupid person. basically the worst kind of person you can be. i don't think that's really you, but it's far too often the discourse you prefer on ilx.

iow i'm not mad, fred, i'm just disappointed.

"fred, conflating finding someone interesting to read w/ agreeing with what they wrote is imho a sign of a very immature mind"

Aaaand I didn't do this. Talk about bad reading comprehension skills.

you literally just did that when you said that i was defending moldbug

you literally said "Nah, it's pretty clear Mordy is defending Moldbug? I mean, of course not the parts about how it's sorta okay to machinegun people like me and my high school friends, it's the other parts that are 'interesting + frames things in provocative ways'."

how is that not a conflation between those two things? you excuse yourself doing it while you're doing it.

I literally quote that you find him interesting, and say nothing about whether or not you agree with him?

dude wtf. what does the word "defending" mean to you? and if you just meant "defending" on grounds that he's interesting then wtf does his support of breivik (& his vile moral transgressions) have to do with it? what you're saying makes no sense unless you are conflating interesting w/ correct.

i know that in 2017 it's verboten to ever admit that you were wrong or back off a position but i'd have so much more respect for you if you stopped digging holes and were just like "you're right that was out of line i don't think you're pro-breivik," or "i didn't understand what you were saying about authoritarianism" or whatever but every new attempt to reframe it just makes you look more and more intellectually dishonest.

I tried reading part 1 of the Moldbug open letter again. I'm suspecting fairly strongly that he is just not a very intelligent person.

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), 11. februar 2017 14:45 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i disagree. he says things that i know are wrong but he also says things that are interesting + frames things in provocative ways. tbh i'm surprised when someone reads open letter and comes away thinking it's just the ramblings of some dumb dude.

― Mordy, 11. februar 2017 14:50 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's defending him. I read that and I see red again. And it's because I hate Moldbug so fucking much.

And I've never said you were pro-breivik, wtf?

Ban Fred b

fred, this is why i said you conflate "interesting" w/ "correct." because you do.

Ban Mordy too tbh

But you know what Mordy? Just go fuck yourself. I'm not going to explain again how traumatic Breivik is, so you can shit on it some more.

i've called kevin mcdonald the most interesting contemporary antisemite. i would be very offended if you quoted that and said i was defending him and then justified your anger by recourse to his moral failings as a jew hater. someone can be evil and be interesting. someone can be good and be boring. learn to distinguish between the two.

yeah fred idgaf about your breivik trauma. it's just a way to short circuit how fucking dumb you're being by trying to cop some sympathy. own up to your shittiness please.

Fuck you too.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Carlb-sockpuppet-02.jpg/220px-Carlb-sockpuppet-02.jpg

what do u feel about the fact that [one of?] the most famous frederiks in history was the most famous proponent of enlightened authoritarianism?

Mordy, I'm not sure you're well. Weren't you going to take a break until you got over you're own Trump-related trauma?

The name means King of Peace, btw. It's one of two names given to Danish kings as well, so I'm pretty well aware of the connection. Am I supposed to think anything about it?

i feel pretty well, actually, thank you. but impugning someone's mental health to score a point in an argument is another screaming recommendation for your moral superiority. tell me more about yr seven degrees of breivik.

oh sweet a flamewar! could y'all hold on for a sec tho? i have to feed my tamogotchi and update my aim away message and i don't want to miss this

Fuck your tamogatchi sleepingbag we had a famine once

lololol <3

1845: An Gorta Mór 2

tbph i want to know who cast the second vote

guys this is what happens when we have a thread that doesn't talk about steely dan

Fuck steely Dan an all after what the Brits done on us in 1603

Mordy, I did not say you were pro-breivik, I did not say you agree with him. I admitted that I misread what you said about authoritarianism - though for the record, it then turned out you meant what I thought you meant. You've admitted you were defending Moldbug, but keeps on shitting on me for having said that you do so. To quote a major asshole who proves you can actually be both evil and boring: "you're a sloppy enough thinker to make basic reading comprehension errors, assume the meanings of words, and construct strawmen to argue with, all while demeaning the ppl you're talking to for no reason but to bolster your own moral authority. a shitty stupid person. basically the worst kind of person you can be. i don't think that's really you, but it's far too often the discourse you prefer on ilx."

boring enough to quote eh? it'd be higher praise if it wasn't coming from such an oaf. tbph i still like you - you're feisty even if you're not half as clever as you think you are, and this forum can use a little fire now and again. i hope you learn to put your feistiness to good use.

And I fear you're a hopeless piece of shit. tbph I mostly pity you. You're boring, stupid, and quite honestly seem scared and scarred.

i think you've continued to misread the tone and conversation. i feel neither scared nor scarred. i'm mostly amused by sparring w/ you; i think you're pretty transparently full of shit here and have progressively degraded the level of conversation over and over again to cover for each preceding revelation of stupidity. i suspect this is your MO in general - you try to distract ppl from embarrassing arguments that go poorly for you by riling up as much of a clusterfuck as possible. i've been willing to accommodate you bc it's the weekend and it really didn't take much time. but just bc your blood pressure is rising and yr heartbeat rapid does not mean that everyone is feeling the same terror of exposure.

I don't think you'd ever be brave enough to do anything but feign amusement, so whatever.

Not enough total toilet protection ITT

Also Fred definitely lost

tbph I mostly pity you.

Jesus Christ dude could you be any more of an obnoxious concern troll?

hard to find a cluster where everybody's on Mordy's side but

And I fear you're a hopeless piece of shit. tbph I mostly pity you. You're boring, stupid, and quite honestly seem scared and scarred.

― Frederik B, Saturday, February 11, 2017 3:38 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fred has never been mad, he thinks it's funny, actually

Mordys being a self infatuated pedantic dick btw.

Harsh. In that case I can't even imagine what you think of Frederik.

guys we all need to relax and listen to some Kenny Loggins