the alt-right

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/841702887772299264

btw i read this yesterday - http://www.skepticink.com/prussian/2014/03/31/the-anti-racialist-q-a/ - and i thought it was pretty excellent. the author is v idiosyncratic and holds a lot of political views ilxors disagree w/* however maybe bc of that he is able to refute specific claims from racialists/alt-rightists w/ deliberate, thoughtful arguments. it's v similar to scott alexander faq's (on anti-nrx among others) and afaik was inspired by those so if you like those styles and want a fairly intelligent fisking of these beliefs i think it's pretty good. (* it seems like he's a climate change denialist?)

I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.

This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.

They're all still Europeans, after all.

(xxp I should note he has other verboten opinions too - i think it's a valuable piece in spite of them plz don't come back w/ some quote and be like "omgod how could you say this is good," this goes double for you fred)

thought this was interesting

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/14/520087884/researchers-examine-breitbart-s-influence-on-misleading-information

might get around to mordy's link. skimmed it and i raised a brow a few times

I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.

Also British fascist dingbats do not care about Christianity.

Yet here in the real world, you defeat bad ideas through reason.

this guy is a riot

I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.

This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.

― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:21 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

chuckled at this too

it happens in latin america too. some (maybe a lot of?) south americans tend to think argentina is 'whiter' or more 'european' because of their italian past while other countries of spanish and portuguese descent are indirectly thought of as non-european. you'll get walls of text from some south americans hanging on to their 'european' complex saying how buenos aires looks more 'european' and, by extension, argentina is just more european

Spain, Greece, Italy, etc are welcomed for having kept up a thriving Fascist subculture. Polish fascists (both resident and visiting) do a lot of work with British far-right groups too.

How widespread is this Persian/Iranian/Zoroastrian return to glory idea? That black metal guy talks a lot like the guy I know but less extreme.

The thing that I remember seeing recently about excluding more and more identities from whiteness was someone disparaging Russians and Slavic ppl like "Shut up, you're not even WITE." So I mean who gets to be wite now? I guess...Swedes and Danes and Englanders but only if you can trace your genetic heritage to a Viking raider?

I mean I get it. This is about wanting to be a Viking since you were 6 years old. No, really, I get it. Everybody has a dream. Mine was to be an Amazon. I didn't grow up to be someone who doxxed Scythians on the internet tho.

How the fuck can you defend a text that has six points called 'preliminaries'? Sometimes I really doubt your mental capabilities, Mordy...

The thing that I remember seeing recently about excluding more and more identities from whiteness was someone disparaging Russians and Slavic ppl like "Shut up, you're not even WITE." So I mean who gets to be wite now? I guess...Swedes and Danes and Englanders but only if you can trace your genetic heritage to a Viking raider?

I mean I get it. This is about wanting to be a Viking since you were 6 years old. No, really, I get it. Everybody has a dream. Mine was to be an Amazon. I didn't grow up to be someone who doxxed Scythians on the internet tho.

― the world's little sunbeam (in orbit), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:54 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't recent. 19th century racial pseudoscience, including the dude who gave us the term caucasian to mean white people, often excluded slavs

the Nazis considered Italians and Spanish to be less industrious Aryans and Sweden/Norway as the purest Aryan group (the Germans being a southern branch of this race). Slavs and Romani were, like Jews, considered subhuman. I think some of this has to do w/ their conception of Christianity as a Jewish imposition on the Pagan races. Sweden/Norway would therefore not just have the phenotype that Nazis were obsessed w/ (the blond hair, blue eyes) but they would also be [among?] the more recent converts to Christianity in Europe and still have roots to their Pagan past. So it sorta is like wanting to be a Viking. xxp

WWII that's where nazis are vikings

"Sleep! That's where I'm a pure white person."

new thread title

Yes please! Thanks for that LOL, Dan.

Dan almost killing me with that comment and the new display name

Related to the whole Iranians-and-Aryanism thing, I recently interviewed an Iranian black metal artist who has some thoughts...

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)

This was really interesting to read, thanks!

― emil.y

Co-sign, this was very good, thanks.

https://twitter.com/dogdadbod/status/841626193464037377

Though I'm not sure this is good (I am sure it's just a couple of guys dicking around) - 'everyone' knows that YouTube comments are a vast cesspool, but if you see them as a battleground that you're winning then that can be empowering in not-good ways.

it'd be like someone getting clowned on ilx and saying "but I'm really popular on twitter!"

Related to the whole Iranians-and-Aryanism thing, I recently interviewed an Iranian black metal artist who has some thoughts...

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)

This was really interesting to read, thanks!

― emil.y

Co-sign, this was very good, thanks.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:09 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes

+1

In re: different variations of what "white" means, I think there's more likely to be defintions that exclude slavic and/or latin peoples in Europe because these are more likely to be immigrant groups working menial jobs - which is what's behind these theories 90% of the time, right? HOWEVER I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc. There's a certain irony to choosing "isolationist racist" as an identity based on foreign sources.

This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.

I don't know if it's an American thing at all! My impression was that Portuguese and Spanish are seen as White in the USA - to distinguish them from people from Central and South America, who're latino. I've seen much more of a notion of Southern European countries being seen as lazy, incompetent, etc. in France and Germany (tho this doesn't often take the tack o racial supremacy, I'll grant you), again because in those countries people from Portugal and Spain are more likely to have been "the help" in the recent past. Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.

I agree current white supremacists don't give a fuck about religion, which is partly why I found that dude so pathetic in the first place - modern, flippant alt-right shit just doesn't jive with religion. But my thinking was more that if this guy showed up to a rally of theirs all "yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!" he wouldn't get much traction. Or maybe they'd indulge him, I dunno.

Talking from a UK perspective, Portugal and Spain have both historically been imperial powers and, indeed, rivals to British imperialism, so throw that into the mix. I have no idea about France and Germany but, in the UK, people from Portugal and Spain have never been associated with menial employment or laziness - we had plenty of Commonwealth immigrants, so less need to belittle anyone else. This is absolutely OTM tho:

I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc.

A lot of it is shoehorned in and makes much less sense in a European context.

"yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!"

You do see some of this with UK nazis - crusades/knights templar type of thing.

Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.

Roma probably. I doubt they would seriously say that about Poles et al.

You know how many Poles died at Auschwitz et al.?

Lots of anti-Polish sentiment in England for sure.

there is a huge amount of anti-polish sentiment but no-one would say they aren't white

I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc.

this boils my blood, not that far right shit would be palatable if it were more authentic and autochthonous, but seeing a person on twitter talking about "libtards" and then clicking on their profile to find that they're in britain just adds an extra-dimension of rage to my reaction

there is a huge amount of anti-polish sentiment but no-one would say they aren't white

Have you seen those Polish guys? With the pasty faces and shaven heads... every single one of them? They're like the whitest people on the planet.

They're angry!

http://gizmodo.com/gab-ceo-andrew-torba-is-mad-online-1793502299

enjoyed this juxtaposition from this conspiracy dude

https://twitter.com/USlawreview/status/844601707539693568

good lord but twitter is full of nutcases

I keep an eye on r/the_donald to see what the shits are up to from time to time, downvote everything, etc.

Their hero, as much as Trump or Milo or whoever, is Paul Joseph Watson. I have never been on there without seeing one of his fucking tweets. Today he came out against the Syria bombings and t_d went into total meltdown - it was a few hours before they managed to get everyone on-message again, and the old confidence still seems shaken even now.

The thing I'm interested in is what they are going to do when the Trump project becomes an undeniable failure in one way or another (you may think this is already the case, but oh boy do they have excuses)

Anyway, if people are interested I can give updates from time to time, or you can follow this link to go there yourself - https://www.reddit.com/r/EaglesTrophyCase+The_Donald/

Alexander Dugin, the absurdly overhyped 'philosopher' loved by Richard Spencer, Bannon, et al, has just been fired from the hardline conservative Russian TV station he was employed at and, I believe, the Katehon think tank. Not a good day for their heroes.

"You’re going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton. You’re not fighting Syria any more, you’re fighting Syria, Russia and Iran, all right?”

"I will not hesitate to deploy military force when there is no alternative. But if America fights, it must fight to win. I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary – and will only do so if we have a plan for victory."

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/03/28/the-darkness-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-artificial-intelligence-and-neoreaction/

this article on nrx, techno-utopianism, techno-dystopianism, etc etc is p good

o_O at some of the photos on Shane Bauer's twitter right now: https://twitter.com/shane_bauer

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9e5zU5UAAAY0GN.jpg

'come and take it' where 'it' is their virginity, presumably

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/the-duke-lacrosse-scandal-and-the-birth-of-the-alt-right.html

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/04/15/todays-berkeley-beat-down-planned-action-by-the-alt-right/

It's so totally unsurprising these stupid fucks would plan to pose as black bloc and do it all out on the internet

I don't really think that's what's happening there - the 'steal antifas look' meme doesn't seem to be serious, unlike the instructions to dress like basedstickman, who has been a thing for a couple of months. Also burn Twitter to the ground.

Ann Coulters speaking at cal on the 19th

At least Coulter has one identifiable talent; she can put together more coherent sentences than the President of the United States.

some more about the berkeley skirmish: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a54564/the-violent-clashes-in-berkeley-werent-pro-trump-versus-anti-trump/