the alt-right

Related to the whole Iranians-and-Aryanism thing, I recently interviewed an Iranian black metal artist who has some thoughts...

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)

This was really interesting to read, thanks!

― emil.y

Co-sign, this was very good, thanks.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:09 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes

+1

In re: different variations of what "white" means, I think there's more likely to be defintions that exclude slavic and/or latin peoples in Europe because these are more likely to be immigrant groups working menial jobs - which is what's behind these theories 90% of the time, right? HOWEVER I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc. There's a certain irony to choosing "isolationist racist" as an identity based on foreign sources.

This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.

I don't know if it's an American thing at all! My impression was that Portuguese and Spanish are seen as White in the USA - to distinguish them from people from Central and South America, who're latino. I've seen much more of a notion of Southern European countries being seen as lazy, incompetent, etc. in France and Germany (tho this doesn't often take the tack o racial supremacy, I'll grant you), again because in those countries people from Portugal and Spain are more likely to have been "the help" in the recent past. Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.

I agree current white supremacists don't give a fuck about religion, which is partly why I found that dude so pathetic in the first place - modern, flippant alt-right shit just doesn't jive with religion. But my thinking was more that if this guy showed up to a rally of theirs all "yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!" he wouldn't get much traction. Or maybe they'd indulge him, I dunno.

Talking from a UK perspective, Portugal and Spain have both historically been imperial powers and, indeed, rivals to British imperialism, so throw that into the mix. I have no idea about France and Germany but, in the UK, people from Portugal and Spain have never been associated with menial employment or laziness - we had plenty of Commonwealth immigrants, so less need to belittle anyone else. This is absolutely OTM tho:

I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc.

A lot of it is shoehorned in and makes much less sense in a European context.

"yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!"

You do see some of this with UK nazis - crusades/knights templar type of thing.

Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.

Roma probably. I doubt they would seriously say that about Poles et al.

You know how many Poles died at Auschwitz et al.?

Lots of anti-Polish sentiment in England for sure.

there is a huge amount of anti-polish sentiment but no-one would say they aren't white

I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc.

this boils my blood, not that far right shit would be palatable if it were more authentic and autochthonous, but seeing a person on twitter talking about "libtards" and then clicking on their profile to find that they're in britain just adds an extra-dimension of rage to my reaction

there is a huge amount of anti-polish sentiment but no-one would say they aren't white

Have you seen those Polish guys? With the pasty faces and shaven heads... every single one of them? They're like the whitest people on the planet.

They're angry!

http://gizmodo.com/gab-ceo-andrew-torba-is-mad-online-1793502299

enjoyed this juxtaposition from this conspiracy dude

https://twitter.com/USlawreview/status/844601707539693568

good lord but twitter is full of nutcases

I keep an eye on r/the_donald to see what the shits are up to from time to time, downvote everything, etc.

Their hero, as much as Trump or Milo or whoever, is Paul Joseph Watson. I have never been on there without seeing one of his fucking tweets. Today he came out against the Syria bombings and t_d went into total meltdown - it was a few hours before they managed to get everyone on-message again, and the old confidence still seems shaken even now.

The thing I'm interested in is what they are going to do when the Trump project becomes an undeniable failure in one way or another (you may think this is already the case, but oh boy do they have excuses)

Anyway, if people are interested I can give updates from time to time, or you can follow this link to go there yourself - https://www.reddit.com/r/EaglesTrophyCase+The_Donald/

Alexander Dugin, the absurdly overhyped 'philosopher' loved by Richard Spencer, Bannon, et al, has just been fired from the hardline conservative Russian TV station he was employed at and, I believe, the Katehon think tank. Not a good day for their heroes.

"You’re going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton. You’re not fighting Syria any more, you’re fighting Syria, Russia and Iran, all right?”

"I will not hesitate to deploy military force when there is no alternative. But if America fights, it must fight to win. I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary – and will only do so if we have a plan for victory."

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/03/28/the-darkness-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-artificial-intelligence-and-neoreaction/

this article on nrx, techno-utopianism, techno-dystopianism, etc etc is p good

o_O at some of the photos on Shane Bauer's twitter right now: https://twitter.com/shane_bauer

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9e5zU5UAAAY0GN.jpg

'come and take it' where 'it' is their virginity, presumably

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/the-duke-lacrosse-scandal-and-the-birth-of-the-alt-right.html

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/04/15/todays-berkeley-beat-down-planned-action-by-the-alt-right/

It's so totally unsurprising these stupid fucks would plan to pose as black bloc and do it all out on the internet

I don't really think that's what's happening there - the 'steal antifas look' meme doesn't seem to be serious, unlike the instructions to dress like basedstickman, who has been a thing for a couple of months. Also burn Twitter to the ground.

Ann Coulters speaking at cal on the 19th

At least Coulter has one identifiable talent; she can put together more coherent sentences than the President of the United States.

some more about the berkeley skirmish: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a54564/the-violent-clashes-in-berkeley-werent-pro-trump-versus-anti-trump/

seems p otm to me. Both sides use Berkeley as a de facto "performance space" to, shall we say, "heighten the contradictions". Obviously I'm sympathetic to one side more than the other, but yeah this isn't so much about Trump as it is both groups taking an advantage of a situation to confront each other.

Yeah but the ones throwing bagels and carrying fake viking shit around deserve to be composted

The white nationalist figure known as Based Stick Man

'Proud Boys' feels like it should be the name of an early Wham single.

The new thing to me in Berkeley was that the alt-right won. Trumpkins', neo-nazis, militias, veterans, they came down in force, and they overwhelmed the anti-fa opposition. That's worth remembering the next time anyone uses a nazi demonstration where there's ten nazis and fivehoundred anti-nazis to claim that the alt-right really isn't that dangerous.

they overwhelmed the anti-fa opposition

I didn't get this impression from eyewitnesses, that's an odd reading

"Shane Bauer ✔@shane_bauer
Militias, alt-right, nazis etc won today in Berkeley. They outnumbered the opposition, pushed it back, and held downtown. Today's America.
1:28 AM - 16 Apr 2017"

it is the emerging reading, and the narrative I got both from friend's FB posts as it unfolded and popularly strengthened by the Shane Bauer twitter feed on saturday. all incredibly distressing.

https://twitter.com/shane_bauer?lang=en

huh. stuff I heard made it seem more like a free-for-all, but I'm not on the facebooks

ugh i hope this shit burns itself out before trump gets replaced, be it at the ballot box in 2020 or before. but i'm probably going to be disappointed. again.

Violent people won a punch-up? Fuck metro 🚋

Autocorrect hilarity

That photo of the Nazi putz kneeling with his carton of milk. Gamergate seemed to weaponise all these desocialised Anime obsessives into rightwing churls, and while part of me feels compelled to laugh, it's really unsettling how quickly they were seduced, and I wonder what larger damage they can cause. They're like laughable villains from a bad dystopian Frank Miller Batman comic, which they've probably read. I wonder if these dudes ever realise that, ever have a Mitchell & Webb-esque "Maybe we're the bad guys?" revelation.

something up in east London

from feb, the ld50 art gallery hosts a lot of far right ish, gets protests

https://nytimes.com/2017/02/25/arts/design/london-gallery-ld50-alt-right-show-protest.html

same group of protesters call for dismissal of Nick Land from the New Centre for Research & Practice

https://shutdownld50.tumblr.com/post/158928600961/no-platform-for-land-on-nick-lands-racist

...according to this post by a Peruvian student of his, it happened

https://medium.com/@gcarloms/crapitulation-on-the-new-centres-sacking-of-nick-land-330b1dc0c6f5

xpost

a lot of the left/right narratives shuffle themselves around a bit as you crawl through the interviews of moderate, minority pro-Trump supporters Bauer posted on his feed. I don't know what some of them would say about having chosen to stand on the side of the (numerous) guys throwing sieg heils, I don't know what the guys who brought 2 liter milk cartons to swig from make of having substantial Black / Latino support for Trump & free speech; but it shouldn't be too surprising that they all get on well enough so that by the end, after the militant fascists have chased away antifa, everyone left (the people who came to support the free speech rally) all get on well enough to do a few rounds around MLK park, KPFA & Shattuck BART all chanting USA. that is something you don't see every day.

I am a tiny bit frustrated with some of Bauer's 140-character takeaways summing up the whole struggle as being fascists against anti-fascists. on one level, totally fair, the actual core beatdowns undoubtedly were precisely that, and yes I was not there and I am grateful he was. but too many of the interviews he posted get at something more heartbroken. passionate people who really are trying to navigate patriotism and the ongoing free speech experiment in 2017, who didn't come to fight.

after having rewatched the entirety of the videos on Bauer's feed though... it would be extremely naive not to admit that the core of that crowd did explicitly show for a fight, and got exactly the fight they wanted.

If US politics ever comes down to whichever group can win a street brawl, I'm not going to be of any further political use.

If US politics ever comes down to whichever group can win a street brawl, I'm not going to be of any further political use.

― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless)

when politics comes down to who can win a street brawl- which, multiple times in the past, it has- the prognosis for governance is generally not good.

That's pretty much the history of the South until the 1960's...

...

Please don't bother enlightening us anymore on that, Fred.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9fKdvhXUAAjNyZ.jpg

At age 62 my street brawling skills have pretty much faded away. That's more of a young person's game. Ditto for my smartphone video recoding skills.