uh, he is gavin mcinnes
― The sandwiches looked quite dank. (contenderizer), Monday, 20 March 2017 04:50 (seven years ago) link
Does he always look crosseyed?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 20 March 2017 04:57 (seven years ago) link
The altright.com "Pro-Life Temptation" article is ... something else.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Monday, 20 March 2017 12:21 (seven years ago) link
Forgot we had this thread from the Bush era: What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
But mostly I came here to post this quote from LGM / http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/05/party-ideas-tm-2
The whole party is just a racket justifying the most upward redistribution of wealth that can pass Congress, justified with asinine back-of-a-cocktail-napkin crap.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 14:59 (six years ago) link
"On the other hand, had Hillary cheated her way to presidency, we'd be fighting 2 or 3 wars at this point. Only by Trump's deft use of unpredictability have we kept one step ahead of the enemies who wish to do us harm on our soil, so they lash out at our unprepared allies as a result."
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:44 (six years ago) link
protecting privilege, increasing existing privilege, and violent, hateful spite against anybody who might think they're better than them
feel like all the most virulent strains are substantially rooted in resenting smart kids in grade school
sorry for being boring and obvious though
― El Tomboto, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
http://www.aei.org/publication/liberals-or-conservatives-whos-really-close-minded/
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:07 (six years ago) link
the ultimate conservative is tom buchanan, idle rich, openly racist, cheating on his wife. he's who the patriots in galt gulch want to be
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:09 (six years ago) link
xp. a good counter-example to tombot's post - that guy was definitely a bullied "smart kid" in school
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:10 (six years ago) link
wow that was some amazingly shallow clickbait. thanks for sharing.
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:15 (six years ago) link
lol if u needed evidence its thesis is true reread this thread
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
someone made a book out of an ilx thread again?
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:20 (six years ago) link
i just dont see how ppl can buy into conservatism without a fundamental lack of empathy for those less fortunate than themselves
― ciderpress, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
yes that's the problem. you can't even model a person who has empathy for others and comes to conservative conclusions about how best to express that empathy.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
I have seen that argument made over and over again and I still think it's bullshit. I know what conservatives THINK their values are; I just happen to believe they're wrong.
And in any case it doesn't matter. Even if your belief in your values (freedom, order, justice, tradition, family, or whatever) is utterly pure and sincere, your support for policies that fuck over the downtrodden is still vile. The end result is that those who most need help and protection - the poor, the vulnerable, the sick, communities of color - are left mercy to violent winds. No amount of reading William F. Buckley or whatever is going to make me forget or ignore that. Sorry not sorry.
― rogan josh hashana (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
the whole conservative belief that big government aid encourages dependency and saps ppl's dignity and that ppl need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps -- this is not some bullshit they're making up to cover up for "protecting privilege, increasing existing privilege, and violent, hateful spite against anybody who might think they're better than them." this is what they believe.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
and they are delusional
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:27 (six years ago) link
and you don't have to apologize to me. it's just good to know what ppl you disagree w/ actually believe and not just what your judgement of the consequences of those beliefs are. you can see conservatives do the same thing when they model liberal thinking. they often ime (tho more often than liberals if that article above is to be believed) just cite their own least favorable interpretation of the motivations and consequences of liberal ideology.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:27 (six years ago) link
I think it's fair to say that any variety of empathy which extends no further than your loved ones and people in your community who look and think like you isn't actually empathy but an amazing simulation thereof.
― President Buttstuff (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
less often* i mean in that parenthetical
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
e pluribus unum bitches
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:29 (six years ago) link
like surely you know they say the same exact things about you right? a little epistemic humility might be useful here.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:29 (six years ago) link
those beliefs are informed by privilege even if not consciously
― ciderpress, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:31 (six years ago) link
fuck that. i've never shown such political bad judgment as to vote for george w bush or donald fucking trump. they owe me an apology
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:31 (six years ago) link
This excellent contenderizer post from a while back deserves greater airing:
> progressives often cluck about the manipulation of poor conservatives, implying that they're mooncalf rubes too dumb to know when they're voting against their own interests. this seems wrongheaded on a number of levels. for one thing, it presumes that such interests can be measured objectively. they can't. the conservatives in question likely stack their towers of relative value quite differently than most progressives. it's also condescending and plays into a well-established conservative narrative, one which holds that the american left is a coalition built cynically on graft, on stealing from the common pot in order to buy the votes of the destitute & lazy. viewed through that lens, the refusal to be so bought, even when one is genuinely needy, becomes a point of pride.
> ― The sandwiches looked quite dank. (contenderizer), Saturday, March 18, 2017 11:00 PM (three months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It remains a good corrective to the "lol dumb right-wingers be manipulated into voting against their interests" narrative. So at least THAT bit needs correcting.
But again, if a policy is racist, supporting it for what you think are non-racist reasons is still shitty in the extreme.
― rogan josh hashana (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
mordy i don't know what superior authority you believe yourself to be arguing from but fwiw i think you are wrong here
the whole conservative belief that big government aid encourages dependency and saps ppl's dignity
for example, this seems to me one of the more brazen and obvious hollow rationalizations that gets thrown around. what are you so confident this is genuine as to use it as your example? note i did exclude the "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" part because ppl do really fall in love with this self aggrandizing fantasy.
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
"protecting privilege, increasing existing privilege, and violent, hateful spite against anybody who might think they're better than them."
If you think this isn't what they believe, maybe look at what some people are saying about the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire?
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
Yeah don't really care whether it's genuinely held or not.
Both because it is provably wrong (in the sense that conservatives who speak of "bootstraps" are 99.9% white dudes who benefited from oodles of privilege they may not be aware of) and because the public policies emanating from it are enormously, demonstrably destructive.
― rogan josh hashana (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
that was xp to the above about dependency
― rogan josh hashana (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
anyone who seriously believes in 'bootstraps' past the age of 16, when the rich kids get new cars, is as silly as someone who believes in santa claus or the great pumpkin. trump can have those fools. trump voters are waaaaay outnumbered in the grand scheme. dems should concentrate on appealing to them and motivating non-voters instead of 'figuring out' trump voters and trying to flip them imho
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
for example, this seems to me one of the more brazen and obvious hollow rationalizations that gets thrown around. what are you so confident this is genuine as to use it as your example?
bc i believe in the principle in a general sense. i think that getting something for nothing is humiliating and unenjoyable and that everyone wants to work to earn their way. no one wants to be on government aid bc it's a mostly shameful thing for most ppl. despite that i support a robust social safety net bc i think that we need to support ppl who for whatever reason are unable to support themselves and bc i think we're all in this together etc etc but i believe the principle conservatives rely upon here is sincere bc it's an extremely relatable principle!
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
except those people voted for a guy who inherited $200,000,000 for nothing. logic fails that profound are healthier to just walk away from than reason with
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
Feel like that's one major thing that defines conservatism: others may see the value in the availability of options they may not personally endorse or agree with, while conservatives want to see the world molded to their particular worldview.
― President Buttstuff (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
One may grant that it's a relatable principle, but believe that the way it is carried out in a policy arena is destructive.
There's nothing noble about the way drug tests for welfare recipients disproportionately stigmatize and harm poor people of color, while steering massive bailouts to banks without asking their executives to pee in a cup.
― rogan josh hashana (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
others may see the value in the availability of options they may not personally endorse or agree with
i think conservatives would laugh at the idea that this describes liberalism fwiw
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
Well, and I don't even know that I would use that as a descriptor of liberals across the board, but it certainly doesn't seem to describe conservatism.
― President Buttstuff (Old Lunch), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:53 (six years ago) link
mordy i think you using your own (non-conservative) reasoning/feelings to explain the sincerity of the conservative position is misunderstanding in m/l the same way you are accusing others in the thread of doing
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
i suspect i know and speak to more conservatives irl than almost anyone on ilx fwiw
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
Well, because this board does not have 500 threads devoted to conservative bile-spewing and angry projection and badly drawn right-wing cartoons, so I never oh wait
― El Tomboto, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
i don't have exact numbers but i'd guess a majority of my synagogue went for trump. ppl i eat lunch with every week, pray w/, learn w/, and discuss politics w/
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
hillary won my county like 80% - 20%. fuck trump voters
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
― Mordy, Friday, June 23, 2017 1:54 PM (thirty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
im a white dude from texas, so probably not
― nice cage (m bison), Friday, 23 June 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
Depends where in Texas you live
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
the part occupied by Jade Helm
― President Keyes, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
There are very blue areas
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
have a gop rep, state rep, state senator, conservative school board members, whats up?
― nice cage (m bison), Friday, 23 June 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
― Mordy, Friday, June 23, 2017 11:43 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah this isn't actually true i find. I've met a ton of conservative people who while happily take public resources - living in public housing; working in easy, stable, relatively well-paying civil service jobs; receiving disability assistance; receiving tax credits for being low income etc. - who resent the hell of everyone else who they feel benefits from government largesse
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 23 June 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
i think that getting something for nothing is humiliating and unenjoyable and that everyone wants to work to earn their way. no one wants to be on government aid bc it's a mostly shameful thing for most ppl.
Taking conservatives at their word, they don't believe the bolded part. They believe that there are untold millions of people who want nothing more than to leech off the government forever, and they don't feel humiliated and ashamed, but they should.
― JRN, Friday, 23 June 2017 19:03 (six years ago) link
lol 99% of my family lives in a county in NE Ohio that went for Trump 55-40 (plus another 3.5% for Gary Johnson). They also went for Romney 50-48 and were virtually tied in 2008 between Obama and McCain. I know a LOT of conservatives.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Friday, 23 June 2017 19:04 (six years ago) link
i think they'd argue that no one truly wants it and it's not good for anyone but it's very hard to say no when someone is giving u something for nothing and so it's basically a conspiracy against those who get aid - they turn into dependents maybe w/ self-loathing etc. xp
― Mordy, Friday, 23 June 2017 19:05 (six years ago) link