Dave Chappelle - "Killin' 'Em Softly"

I watched the first (more recent) special, and it confirmed for me that Chappelle can still be really funny, but there's just something off about the guy now. It's interesting that someone above said he seemed happy, because my sense is just the opposite. There's an undercurrent of bitterness to him that wasn't there before.

Admittedly, the physical change throws me off too. His bulkiness looks so weird and unnatural to me that I half-suspect HGH was involved. And it doesn't help that it's come along with a change in his voice and speaking style that makes it sound like his tongue is heavy in his mouth.

Also weird that so much of that special made it sound like Dave has no idea that a person can be both black and gay, or both black and trans. Of course he does know that, but a version of him that didn't would do a lot of the same material. (E.g. the "gay people are doing well, but take it from a black guy..." bit.)

Last night I watched this old clip of Chappelle on Def Poetry Jam. He's so relaxed and effortless here. Compared to this, present-day Dave is heavy, labored, and generally a bummer. (But still really funny sometimes.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiU6ADkiTT0

that said idk if K&P would've gotten green lit if not for Chappelle. but I think the type of humor was totally different.

― frogbs, Monday, March 27, 2017 2:12 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think that's what Dave is saying, that he did all the shit work that allowed K&P to do what they did with relatively little (if any) network interference. In his DVD commentaries, he talks about how fucked up and absurd it is that he has to argue for hours on end with a room of white network execs about, among other things, why it's ok for a sketch to use the n-word. He sees K&P benefiting from the battles he fought (and that ultimately led to him leaving the show).

I have a lot of thoughts on this

I think both of these specials are fantastic. I think they can't be judged against, say, Killin Em Softly or Aziz or Louis' year of road-tested, polished material. As someone pointed out above, they do have the feel of loose, riff-y sessions. And, in the literally 10 years since Chappelle has released anything into the world, loose, riff-y sessions is how a lot of people experience art, whether via Lil Wayne/Future mixtapes or giving someone way less funny like Marc Maron a career that entails 787 podcast episodes. Like, I would never had said this until I was given the option, but I would rather have three B+ hours from the funniest human being on the planet vs. one A+ hour packaged like a George Carlin special from the 70s.

And, obviously, I don't agree with the *politics* expressed in homophobic or transphobic jokes, but I thought many of them were still p funny and, more importantly, valuable in showing how one person, Dave Chappelle, is navigating a changing world.

by continuing to probe the boundaries of what people consider offensive?

i think i'd rather have a heavily-written laser-guided carlin special from dave chappelle because i think it could be like a bomb going off. but that's just me. i didn't think these were fantastic though. maybe my expectations were too high. maybe i shouldn't have known how much he got paid for them! i dunno.

valuable in showing how one person, Dave Chappelle, is navigating a changing world.

gimme a break, the only thing he's navigating is his family's financial security. A socially-responsible comedian interested in "navigating a changing world" would choose to not include homophobic or transphobic jokes in his set, or at the very least maybe not call women bitches? But it's not Aziz, it's Dave, he's kind of an asshole, that's his style. He's less interested in boundary-probing than he is real-keeping. He's always talked like a cranky old man, now he's just settling into the cranky old man physical vessel.

I agree the specials are fantastic though! But it's not a legit comeback, it's just pleasant nostalgia watching an old friend do his thing again.

cosign all that

i mean, i'll cosign that too with the footnote that maybe the idea that Chappelle is a socially-responsible comedian was foisted upon him, and probably never really was

idk where that idea came from. if anything he's the guy who taught an entire generation of white boys that it was okay to say the N-word.

Yeah, Chappelle (like Louis C.K. and others) gets vastly more credit for being a thought-provoking truth-teller than he has ever remotely deserved.

if anything he's the guy who taught an entire generation of white boys that it was okay to say the N-word.

er, no this happened at least 10 years earlier

It's more depressing in some ways to see someone who was pushing boundaries and eking out this space nearly fifteen years ago fit exactly in the space he spent so much time working on. Chappelle didn't just do that for comedy -- there are entire spaces in the culture I feel like he had an affect on and society's built on that, changed, evolved since then. If you start out today, you get those things for free.

maybe that's the thing, the social space he fought so hard for, it's just what he wanted (and deserved) but it never meant he was more tuned in to anyone else's struggle

it's this cultural thing where people frame society through a particular reference period or outlook in their own lives and each successive generation gets all those views and their own, built on a culture that's blended all of those things. if you're not constantly engaging with people, especially young people, you're stuck

pt 2 def better imo. Still some eye-roll-y homo/transphobic stuff but generally it just flows better and the lengthy, more convoluted setups have better payoffs.

Birbiglia is another comfort humor type

― “Yeah. Huh, thanks.” (los blue jeans), Sunday, March 26, 2017 10:20 AM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i kinda reject the whole notion of "comedy has to push boundaries and make you uncomfortable" seems like kinda b.s. punk rock bullshit, I think Birbiglia's new special is way better than either of the new Chapelle things...I dunno, like Lenny Bruce is fucking unbearable to me but I still find enjoyment in old Bob Newhart routines

not that "edgy" humor can't be great but the whole offensiveness and making the audience uncomfortable bill hicks (another guy i seriously think is awful to listen to today) bullshit ends up in andrew dice clay and sam kinison or that dickhead boston guy just as often as it ends up as vintage pryor or chapelle

wow Whiney that is a disappointing take imo

I think ums is largely otm, "pushing the boundaries" as a comedic raison d'etre is not the holy grail/ultimate defense that some comics seem to think it is

xxpost -- Bill Burr is said boston asshole i was thinking of

wow Whiney that is a disappointing take imo

― People like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, March 29, 2017 1:39 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't know, I admit I'm probably better than most at separating "things that detest me politically" with "things that are entertaining" in that same way that the "racist/funny" won the ILX poll about Long Duk Dong.

one of ILXs more shameful moments imo

xp. haha, god i didn't know that

I think Birbiglia's new special is way better than either of the new Chapelle things

haven't seen the second chappelle but so far I'd agree with this

I mean, I would wager that 95% of people on ILX agree that stereotyping Asians is unacceptable and mocking trans people is unacceptable – but some people still enjoy music/movies/comedy that is problematic despite being enlightened and knowing better.

Neil Brennan's special is v good

Brennan's latest special was really good, that's true. It's not hard to see how him and Chappelle complimented/improved each other's material.

"pushing the boundaries" as a comedic raison d'etre is not the holy grail/ultimate defense that some comics seem to think it is

if it elicits a strong laugh from the audience, the intellectual or moral goodness of what gets said is completely moot

Birbiglia's new special is way better than either of the new Chapelle things...

you ppl are out of yr lilywhite npr-washed minds

if it elicits a strong laugh from the audience, the intellectual or moral goodness of what gets said is completely moot

*strong laugh*

i think i actually laughed harder during the new bill burr - since someone brought him up - special but mostly because he kept calling Mcdonalds food poison and his reaction to eating it was exactly the same as my reaction. he is a dickhead but also a good example of someone who can make me laugh even though i "know better". i probably don't really know any better though.

i don't even think bill burr is trying to be edgy or push boundaries or whatever. he's been doing the same thing for years. he's your standard outraged jerky boy.

birbiglia: jokes about how his yoga classmates are polite but secretly mean! and how spicy food is too hot! delivered in a library voice... you'd have to be fucking lobotomized to enjoy this

hang on, do you think my yoga classmates ARE secretly mean?

I don't agree w sleepingbag's contention that if the audience laughs, it's okay. I know comics are naturally inclined to think like this, but um terrible audiences laugh at horrible shit and I don't think that's really a yardstick that should be encouraged.

"pushing the boundaries" as a comedic raison d'etre is not the holy grail/ultimate defense that some comics seem to think it is

if it elicits a strong laugh from the audience, the intellectual or moral goodness of what gets said is completely moot

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article483811.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/42E73966-D655-9968-F1C16F2AD3124117.jpg

I don't even listen to NPR! Only sports talk KFAN 4 lyfe

xp well it's a good thing y'all ain't in charge because there is nothing in this world like a good laugh and I sure as fuck ain't getting that from 'humorists' and cult-of-the-sensitive types

i really liked the new Jen Kirkman and also the Michael Che ones more than the new chapelle too

basically i just didn't really like these new chapelle ones that much

but i am lobotomized and probably can't process such edgy comedy in the way tough hombre sleepingbag can

xp. http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/8800000/Achmed-The-Dead-Terrorist-achmed-the-dead-terrorist-8898423-367-279.jpg

lol. I liked the che a lot, agree that was way better than the new chappelles

I'm not advocating gov't censorship here, I'm defending the right of general public to criticize performances, not sure why that's a big deal. There's a subset of comedians who are hyper-defensive about anyone anywhere ever taking them to task for their material, like they are on a divine mission from god and LAUGHS are above critique, which is just stupid imo.

xp

i used to like gaffigan okay but i can't stand that thing he does where he talks in a high voice like he's an audience member talking about himself...like he'll say "I'm really fat....but that's only because i eat like crap and don't exercise" and then he'll be like "Oh my god, can you believe that, he's so fat, sad" in a higher voice

I'm sure audiences laughed at Amy Schumer's racist shit, it was still racist shit

xp

Yeah that Gaffigan thing drives me nuts. Otherwise he's alright.

i used to like gaffigan okay but i can't stand that thing he does where he talks in a high voice like he's an audience member talking about himself...like he'll say "I'm really fat....but that's only because i eat like crap and don't exercise" and then he'll be like "Oh my god, can you believe that, he's so fat, sad" in a higher voice

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, March 29, 2017 1:40 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i tried the new gaffigan special and made it like ten minutes, super boring 2 me

who was the woman who did a joke about being raped by amy schumer in her new netflix special. i laughed at that. you'd uhhhh have to see it for context.

feel bad for people who seem to be unable to take off their "liberal crusader" hat any time ever

just say SJW, you know you want to

i mean ffs most of the people sharing concerns have stated they found part or most of the special funny! I heard the uncomfortable transexual jokes when I actually saw him in 2015, and I still left the show feeling like I was entertained.

but when you're a close ally of the LGBTQ community where 40% of your friends are gay, and you're hearing a comedian make a joke about a transexual that seems to be making open mockery of the topic, only a few years after a transexual person got beaten into a near-coma in a McDonald's for "using the wrong bathroom", while the people around you sit stone-faced when Chappelle asks you to cheap for the gay community and then guffaws loudly at his transphobic jokes, it's a bit discomforting.

maybe not as much when you're sitting at home watching it on TV, but I heard this shit as part of an audience that shall I say seemed a bit meathead and not very progressive.

cheap = "cheer"

feel bad for people who seem to be unable to take off their "liberal crusader" hat any time ever

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, March 29, 2017 3:25 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feel bad for people who are shitheads

i wish i could laugh my stupid ass off at gags about "trannies". what a burden a conscience is