Better Call Saul

xpost Yeah it didnt seem that big of a GOTCHA tbh. 1st 2 episodes have been ok. I'm getting more of a kick out of Mike's long wordless scenes of covert stalking than Jimmy's story (which seems to be covering well trodden territory)

the reverse for me. Mike's plotline more closely mirrors BB's focus on mechanics and minutiae, but it's Jimmy's plotline that has the emotional resonance and depth of character

I agree, its just Jimmy's story has been less appealing so far this season

breaking and entering is enough to get him arrested, i think there's three people who now can prove admission of guilt to what's on that tape... no longer his story vs mine.
in any case, it's enough to force jimmy out of the law... under his own name at least.

i really really appreciate (as per the block quote up top) that they explained in the opening why the tape was made without explicitly telling the audience and then, in opposition to a zillion other hourlong dramas that would've made the buildup to Jimmy breaking the crux of the story for five more episodes ("THE SECRET TAPE SAGA FINALLY COMES TO A HEAD IN THE NEXT TO THE LAST EPISODE BEFORE THE LAST EPISODE"), bang, it's over.

i think there's three people who now can prove admission of guilt to what's on that tape

idk Jimmy's defense - that he was telling his totally nuts brother what he wanted to hear in order to restore him to some semblance of sanity - is totally believable. And the tape itself is destroyed, of questionable provenance etc.

I suppose it could come down to Ernie betraying Jimmy, which would be brutal andsad

you're assuming that actually was the tape, it clearly was not.
jimmy busted into the house screaming bloody murder, busting open the drawer with a fireplace poker and REadmitting to everything anyway; don't think the burden of sanity is on his bro anymore

That's assuming that is the tape/that it's the only copy

Xp

One thing that doesn't sit quite right with me: why is this the betrayal that provokes the big outburst from Jimmy? He didn't react like that when he found out that Chuck secretly stood in the way of his legal career from the beginning, nor when Chuck intervened to get Mesa Verda back from Kim.

So why does Jimmy freak out and accuse Chuck of ruining the family now--particularly since, as Chuck and Howard and Kim have all said, the tape is not likely to be admissable in court, let alone useful? The one thing I can think of is that Jimmy might be angry over having been out-grifted. The other stuff was just Chuck throwing his weight around. This time, Jimmy was actually deceived.

xposts: I think Jimmy can definitely still claim that he was just saying what he thought Chuck needed to hear, and that he was angry over having been recorded without his knowledge (by his own brother, who he had cared for in his time of need, etc. etc.)

REadmitting to everything anyway

this is not what happened

Yeah I think it's chuck being a faker re his breakdown: big betrayal, big hypocrisy xp

he charged into the room, explicitly referenced Chuck acting crazy, and yelled about the betrayal/being taped. He didn't say anything about the content of the tape being the truth.

Jimmy's behavior - freaking out over a family-member's insane and malicious behavior - looks way more rational than Chuck's "I'm allergic to electricity" nonsense tbh

like which one do you think a jury's gonna be more sympathetic to

here's the story as i see it happening: jimmy is booked for b&e, possibly brandishing a weapon (some variety of assault) with the poker. He's dead to rights and maybe threatened with more on the confession. chuck won't press charges IF jimmy stops using the McGill name. Of course Jimmy is now completely associated with that name with his business and advertising. This is the Saul Goodman origin story. Of course now he can't share an office with Kim....

I agree that the leap to anger is a bit contrived, it's another way that the speeding forward of the plot serves the show tho. Found that less problematic because of how quickly it was executed.

I suspect we'll see payoff to that (chuck's mental illness/crushability) before we get to a courtroom tbh xp

your scenario makes sense at this point, yeah

xp

I don't mind contrivances! I'm a breaking bad fan

"chuck won't press charges IF jimmy stops using the McGill name."

that's what I'm thinking too.

I enjoyed blurry background Gus.

That shot of him grimly staring ahead while Jimmy drove off behind him was an indication that Gus knew what Jimmy was up to right? Definitely realising something (as Jimmy's car screeched off).

love odenkirk's and banks's relationship & interractions when they're actually in a scene together

I liked how analyzing the Mike/Gus/Jimmy interactions in this episode involved rewinding everything we know about these characters' relationships. Gus knows about Mike, neither Mike nor Jimmy know anything about Gus, as of the time he walks into the restaurant Jimmy is just some random dude as far as Gus is concerned but he manages to sniff him out and link him to Mike by the time he's gone, and Mike and Jimmy are still clueless about Gus until Mike gets his phone call.

It'll be fun when Cranston and Paul make their inevitable cameos, sharing space with people who are total strangers but with whom they will be intimately tied to just a few years down the road.

halfway through the second season of this, and I think it's wonderful. A lot of the Mike stuff feels very disjointed though, like it should be a separate TV show. Kinda seems like they couldn't decide whether to do a Saul spinoff or a Mike spinoff, so they shot down the middle and tried both. (I'm sure the storylines will continue to converge here and there, but it still messes up the flow of a lot of episodes).

Also the world building is so good with the Saul stuff and law firms and the Sandpiper case that it feels weird being pulled back to the Nacho stuff so often.

^^^the things evan r doesn't get are the things i like best, apart from when banks and odenkirk are on-screen together, which is always the gihhlight -- and that's because the very different rhythms of stories when they're not together so strongly charge the brief times when they are together

trying to think of another time i've seen a move like this and actually can't

yes gihhlight, i meant gihhlight

the next ep preview notes "Kim is disappointed when Saul takes a new client" and i think that has to mean that he decides to represent himself in his case vs chuck so we may have a few episodes with Jimmy in jail hijinx

It has felt like two shows in one re Mike and Jimmy - and because Mike is closer to the Mike we know in BB his scenes tend to feel more like extensions of that show (which am fine with personally...at least while they revolve around these absurdly monastic surveillance moves) whereas it's otherwise more like Better Call Jimmy (a different show) still.

yeah that's otm. I suppose that could seem thrilling but the disconnect just feels clumsy to me.

I hated the "Breaking Bad, only wacky" vibe of the first two season one episodes, too, though. Really feel like the show didn't find its footing until it focused on the law stuff. All the legal subplots really seem to stand on their own, whereas the Mike stuff probably only works for Breaking Bad fans already vested in the character

whereas the Mike stuff probably only works for Breaking Bad fans already vested in the character

idk about that. the backstory re: his son/daughter-in-law/granddaughter gave him more depth of character than p much anything in his BB appearances. I think his storyline/sequences are def more in line w BB's sort of mechanical, problem-solving focus, but as a character I think you could come to BCS cold and find his story believable/compelling.

whether or not anyone is actually watching this w out seeing BB first is a different question

thrilling isn't how i'm responding to it -- i like it bcz it's this collision of two very extremely different types of problem solving (or better, of approaches to problems, since i would hesitate to call what jimmy does "solving") which every now and then overlap when they meet each other, where the two worlds go into just constant very funny microaggression recoil (as much as anything, terrific acting from both of them: banks's mix of eternal-granite stoneface stoicism and, just under the surface, itchy facepalm exasperation, makes me crack up every time i watch these bits)

and jimmy is obviously daunted by mike, and he deals with this by just jabbering his way round it (which kind of works, because whatever he is he's not actually an idiot)

xxp The chatty, relaxed tone of the Jimmy scenes is diff enough from BB that I could really see people who weren't into BB liking this and watching it. Heard of a few anecdotally, but yah most people are obviously already converts

I was never as into Mike as everybody else seemed to be I guess. His granddaughter storyline feels repeated from BB, and the whole "old man who is underestimated by drug lords but more cunning than he seems" is a thematic repeat of Walt's "sickly middle class guy is underestimated by drug lords but more dangerous than he looks" thing. Like, honestly, how many scenes do I have to watch where Mike is dismissed as old man or geezer or Mr. Magoo or whatever.

The more I think about the narrative trajectories of Walt, Mike and Jimmy, it's actually kind of a wonder these shows didn't descend into straight Falling Down territory. It's v much cut from the same "white guys sick of eating shit" cloth

(My posts are coming across as bitchier than I mean them to be; I really love this show and think it is doing something impressive and original, so I'm mostly nitpicking)

is granddaughter storyline feels repeated from BB

I don't think any of that stuff - the extent of his corruption, him being responsible for his son's death, killing cops in retaliation, having a strained relationship w his daughter-in-law, etc. - was in BB at all...? It was always alluded to in BB that Mike was a hard case w a past, but BCS is the first time you get that he's also guilt-ridden, that his granddaughter is his only real chance at redemption, that his stone-faced routine is indicative of something more than just criminal cynicism.

lol I'm not at half of those plot reveals yet. That's what I get for dipping into a TV thread w/o being caught up

yes, J & M are both entertaining minor unfilled-in characters in BB -- both of which you wondered how they got to where they were, essential but unlikely cogs in a smooth-running criminal system

haha sorry for la spoilidad!

xp

lol no need to apologize; by internet spoiler etiquette you were well within bounds

also nice thing about this show is spoilers don't matter much at all. Much more about the vibe of any given scene than plot twists or w/e

I think Mike is one of the great neo-noir crime characters of this era, it goes without saying he was excellent in BB. But I feel like knowing his exact downfall sort of gives him extra gravitas in BCS. Like in BB his character seemed quite impervious to death at times (apart from when he got shot up in Mexico and nearly died!), until it unexpectedly happened.

All that stuff about Mike's backstory comes out in the first season--in one episode, really--so I don't think anything was spoiled here.

even as a Mike agnostic, his death was one of the best moments of the show. Such a nice break from the kinda over the top tone of the show's previous big boss takedowns, and very fitting for the character (maybe even moreso after watching BCS, too)

His death is just rendered all the more tragic when you see how meticulous and cautious he's consistently been...until he ignores his gut and goes into business with Walt.

At long last, we have Tyrus.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS LOOK AWAY

so in the scene where mike is ambushing the pollos hermanos lorry, why -- between shots into the air -- does he seem so carefully to train the rifle on the two smugglers, before once again firing into the air? yes to heighten the tension for the viewer -- is he going to shoot em? -- but why from his non-meta POV? since he never has any intention of shooting them

(if he was setting himself up for shooting the running shoes a bit later he would have been carefully training the rifle on the shows)

I think he was just using the scope to keep an eye on them but was also preparing to shoot on the offchance that they spotted him.

That wasn't a polos hermanos truck, that what one of Hectors. He as doing that for Gus.

And i figure he was giving them the sense that it was hunters so they wouldn't be suspicious hearing the shot on the way off.