ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

"Pelevin's prose is usually devoid of dialogue between the author and the reader, whether through plot, character development, literary form or narrative language. This corresponds to his philosophy (both stated[where?] and unstated) that, for the most part, it is the reader who infuses the text with meaning."

no way, buddy, that's your job, i already have a job.

he's probably too smart for me.

"Pelevin's prose is usually devoid of dialogue between the author and the reader

what does this even mean

I don't think he's "difficult" at all, not compared to, say, Cordwainer Smith or Bolano or idk Alasdair Gray. His actual prose is p simple, even though the plots are often hallucinatory or metaphysical or satirical. It's very Russian. Better than Bulgakov.

he is no longer on speaking terms with us.

i think that's what it means.

yeah, on the other hand, if i can read van vogt, i can read anybody.

I think it's just kind of a bitchy way to say "he's a Buddhist"

xp

i'm really used to reading the first 20 pages of an SF novel and not knowing what the hell is going on or what the hell people are talking about. that's a barrier to entry! its also why people don't like opera. do you guys study the maps at the beginning of SF books? i glance at them. i just figure yeah you're somewhere. you'll go somewhere else. i'll just ride in the back.

knowing yr tastes scott I'm not sure what you would make of him. I mean, he's definitely not in the American pulp tradition, and he's not really in the inscrutable/highbrow eastern european sf tradition (Strugatsky Bros, Lem etc.) either. But there are enough elements of the fantastic in his books - whether its werewolves or vampires or kafka-esque transformations or bee-worshipping cults or time travel - that he often seems to get slotted into the "speculative fiction" ghetto over here. Too weird/out there for the NYT Book Review crowd (who seem to prefer that way less interesting asshole Vladimir Sorkin) altho this piece is p good: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/books/review/Schillinger-t.html

Think that quote maybe means he is not "in dialogue" with the long-standing, long-running arguments/disputes/discussions so beloved by the sf community.

"In her guileful storytelling, the supervixen enfolds the precepts of Confucianism, Buddhism and Sikhism, along with the theories of Wittgen­stein, William of Occam, Freud, Foucault and, especially, Berkeley. (A Hu-Li’s lover’s idea of pillow talk: “Everything only exists by virtue of perception.”) While writing her own Internet pornography ad for whores.ru, A Hu-Li teasingly draws from the fairy tales of Aksakov, the poetry of Blok, the writings of Nabokov. To spice up a casual encounter, she daydreams of Suetonius — who inspires one of her especially sadistic group sex sessions."

This is definitely the right kind of thing for SOMEONE. maybe not me though.

Sounds pretty cool. Why is Sorkin an asshole? (I don't know who he is)

I'm not gonna spend any energy slagging off stuff I haven't read but generally anything involving a "special" protagonist resolving some sort of epic conflict tends to bore me.

― Οὖτις, Friday, 5 May 2017 19:27

Yeah these blurbs about a special person rising up to make things right sound awful but I try to ignore them because they can be as misleading as the cover art.

Probably part of the reason Princess Mononoke is a bit overrated.

This is definitely the right kind of thing for SOMEONE. maybe not me though.

haha that review does make it sound like a tiresome game of "spot the reference" but idk it didn't really come off that way to me. (That being said, I would rate the werewolf book as second tier Pelevin, nonetheless it seems like the one that got the biggest publicity push in the US)

Been so long since I read any of those finds but do recall Liverpudlian Ramsey Campbell's The Face That Must Die mainly for the perp twitching his way through grey Liverpool department stores all playing Beatles, and having anxiety attacks in the phone booth amid fogbound thunder and lightning (v. relatable).

Going back much, much, much further, came across Zenna Henderson People stories in science fiction mags (wanna say Amazing; she wasn't man enough for Analog* or cool enough for The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction): pretty sure I read something that went pretty much like this: an endless fogbound bus ride, with various smells and coughing and baby cries and engine sounds all part of the drone, as she (always imagined as looking like that portrait of the author, though don't think I've seen it before) touches herself through her raincoat in the dark---"Tell yourself, It's only to help me sleep"(exact quote lodging in my middle school mind)---all part of the price paid and contrast with the lights of Revelation, for you are not alone. You are not a psi power witchy freak, never quite managing to keep it all hid.
*Although come to think of it I can imagine Dianetics-era John Campbell digging this

Also a Robert Charles Wilson novel about a Moral Majority etc utopia/dystopia, often on horseback (okay but got tired of the saddle), and a very good shorter one about an alt-u where the Civil War as we semi-know it never took place, but lots of over-the-border conflicts and all kinds of effects of sustained tensions, to put it mildly.

anyway, people really dig his current style these days. i see it on a ton of books.

I'm seeing some Paul Lehr influence in that one.

Snow Crash was fun, but The Diamond Age seemed like he was maybe consciously trying to find his way beyond (and/or what was worth salvaging from) late-cyberpunk etc. assumptions and other reflex-tempted areas of thinking and writing. Not great, but worth a look.

Could have sworn one of those classy anthologies with the Zenna Henderson story was The Very Best of S & SF

Or maybe S & SF & M---I'm sure she got around more than I did, and good for her.

Science Fiction Encyclopedia: with "Ararat" (October 1952 F&SF), she began publishing the series of stories about The People which comprises her central achievement, and which became a central feature of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. Wow, we were both cooler than I thought; don't remember reading or even seeing that 'til I got to the Eighth Grade (but at some point I got back issues of TMFSF, and her first People collection, Pilgrimage, mostly or maybe all from that mag----I guess I misremembered because she seemed so diff from Leiber and Sturgeon and Vonnegut and so on).

The Wanderers by Meg Howrey

^^^ this was pretty good

And so was
The Fortress at the End of Time by Joe M. McDermott — January 17th

Short article by Aliette De Bodard

http://uncannymagazine.com/fallacy-agency-power-community-erasure/

S&SF
Should be F & SF, of course.

one of the reasons i still haven't read the banks culture books is because i feel like i should own them all before i read them. but maybe i really don't.

I picked up Matter, which I later found out is supposed to be one of the most difficult Culture novels, on a whim and while it wasn't an easy read, I ended up finding it very rewarding and didn't come away with a "missing so much, should've read all the other ones first" feeling.

If I ever were to think that life isn't too short to reread a culture novel, that would be a contender for my top pick.

http://vintagegeekculture.tumblr.com/post/156858872976/top-misconceptions-people-have-about-pulp-era

good piece, not super in-depth or anything but passable

RAG, let me know how you get on with Caledonia Dreamin'; I need to get back to reading more Scots - my studies were focused on it to some extent.

Have you read 'But 'n' Ben A Go Go'?

No, but that sounds very interesting.

It drags a bit, but the writing is very good.

Posted this in current reading thread, but belongs here:

Just finished Stanislaw Lem's 'MORTAL ENGINES', much of which are some of his humourous short stories about robots/AIs. My taste for Lem is much more for his steely, serious side, so luckily this collection ends with 'The Mask', an astonishing, rich and strange novella worth buying the book for alone.

Hmm I don't have that one for some reason

Recommendation accepted.

Posted this in current reading thread, but belongs here:

Now I understand why I thought I'd made the above post already, but couldn't find it. In my defence I have a one year old child and am sleep deprived.

Been a long time since I read it, but seemed like Solaris was serious/substantial enough x deadpan-funny enough (going back and forth seamlessly enough).

Solaris maybe one of my least favorites of his tbh

mordantly funny was kinda his stock in trade

Been enjoying the criticism of Jonathan McCalmont. I'm sceptical of some of his claims but he's refreshingly honest and not afraid to criticize beloved figures.

Here's a positive review and some of the recent books he rates highly.
http://csff-anglia.co.uk/clarke-shadow-jury/the-many-selves-of-katherine-north-by-on-emma-geen-a-review-by-jonathan-mccalmont/

https://ruthlessculture.com/2017/02/17/genre-origin-stories/

Cultural commentators may choose to characterise 2015 as the year in which genre culture rejected the misogynistic white supremacy of the American right but the real message is far more nuanced. Though the institutions of genre culture have undoubtedly improved when it comes to reflecting the diversity not only of the field but also of society at large, this movement towards ethnic and sexual diversity has coincided with a broader movement of aesthetic conservatism as voices young and old find themselves corralled into a narrowing range of hyper-commercial forms.

In today’s diverse genre culture you can engage with the voices of people from all over the world as long as you are content to read multi-volume epic fantasy and military science fiction series. In today’s diverse genre culture, authors whose ideas and experiences demand that they write in unconventional or experimental ways are both ignored by the larger genre imprints and overlooked by popular awards. In today’s diverse genre culture you will write the same old rubbish as George R. R. Martin and John Scalzi or you will wind up getting paid six cents a word for stories that nobody will ever read.

https://ruthlessculture.com/2016/05/17/future-interrupted-harder-core-than-thou/

https://ruthlessculture.com/2017/01/17/future-interrupted-telling-people-what-they-want-to-be/
A very negative review

https://ruthlessculture.com/2015/05/21/future-interrupted-the-origins-of-science-fictional-inequality/

That is pretty incisive!

Oof. Sounds otm tho

https://dorisvsutherland.wordpress.com
http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/author/doris-v-sutherland/

Also Doris V Sutherland writes interesting reviews of Hugo nominated fiction (including the illegitimate nominations) and articles about racism in British horror.

And articles about that guy who believes leftists are possessed by evil spirits. Fascinating thing about him is that he pretends he's incredibly successful. Some of the other Puppy people pretend they're doing incredibly well, as if they're ready to eclipse the Hugo winners but the truth is that some of these guys are really struggling because their Puppy association has burned bridges.
There weren't enough gamergater types who're interested in buying their books and the sort of thing they're doing doesn't have the wide appeal they thought it did.

welcome to the world of jazz music.

x-post

but hasn't it always been that way kinda? crud makes money and the better stuff is in the margins and cracks and underground and whatever. not always, but a lot of the times. and that's true for a lot of art. is scalzi really rubbish, i was gonna read some of his one of these days.

i doubt that sf writers who actually sell a lot of books are rolling in money. they certainly don't dress like they are.

but i have always thought of jazz when thinking of genre writers. and why jazz people/sf writers make so many records/books. to pay the bills. its hard out there for a visionary.

I havent been able to finish the free copy of the only Scalzi book i have (old man's war). His prose is pretty eyeroll-y imo.

McCalmont argued with Scalzi on his blog.

I think he believes that things have went downhill from the days China Mieville and Ian Banks were really popular.

i'm glad i don't live in a real time SF universe. i just buy stuff at random kinda. sometimes i'll pick up one of those old best of anthologies i have at home and get engrossed in the long essays at the front about the state of 1993 SF.