Trump, June 2017: From [Covfefe] with Love

Trump getting elected period remains just so innately disheartening.

i'm just gonna cast aside any degree of investment in my health and any specific plans for the future. maybe i'll start smoking cigarettes or something. why not?

Because even if the congress and White House went blue, they can't just undo the shit Trump is undoing

be specific, because in many cases they can actually undo the shit he is doing

and let's be really clear here - repealing the ACA, pushing through an insane tax cut, building a wall on the Mexican border, etc. - these are all things with horrible, horrible consequences and it is a good thing that they are being stopped.

Are they being stopped or just seriously slowed? You can't stop something that hasn't happened yet, and I can't tell if they've been stopped or merely stymied by the gross incompetence of this administration.

Oh, and you want specific? OK. How about ... the Paris Climate Accord? Can we just rejoin? Or if some ACA replacement passes in some shape or form in the next few years ... can that just be changed? How about tax cuts, if they ever happen? Good luck getting enough momentum getting tax hikes passed, even if it's just to bring things up to old levels.

Paris Climate Accord? Can we just rejoin?

probably

that's what I'm wondering. US can't actually withdraw until 2020, so if a Dem/non-idiot president wins, can't they just rejoin?

The fuse is a little longer than most, but this is basically a genocidal act. Made out of willful ignorance and spite, by a reality show star.

How widespread was voter revulsion towards Nixon and understanding of what Watergate meant when it went down? Because I only really know from Perlstein tomes, but I get a sense that maybe a lot of people didn't get/care what he'd been doing wrong? Like Trump's apologists now? The only difference is they got Twitter (and he hasn't gone down yet)

Why would the world wait for us to do so? Like Brexit, I assume damage is done.

We can but who would take our word? President Pruitt can withdraw again in 2024.

Or if some ACA replacement passes in some shape or form in the next few years ... can that just be changed?

yes, if the votes in congress are there. ditto taxes (remember the battle over letting Bush's ridiculous tax cuts expire?)

xp

Also what does You can't stop something that hasn't happened yet mean because as a koan its kind of imparsable.

Why would the world wait for us to do so? Like Brexit, I assume damage is done.

they're not going to wait. the other signatories are going to move forward.

How widespread was voter revulsion towards Nixon and understanding of what Watergate meant when it went down? Because I only really know from Perlstein tomes, but I get a sense that maybe a lot of people didn't get/care what he'd been doing wrong? Like Trump's apologists now? The only difference is they got Twitter (and he hasn't gone down yet)

― Who's puttin' sponge in the zings I once zung (stevie), T

A Democratic Congress made a difference. So did two congressional committees and an independent prosecutor quietly accumulating such damning evidence that GOP resistance crumbled. Remember: it was Barry Goldwater who marched into the Oval Office to tell Nixon he had no support in Congress.

xpost Meaning the ACA tax cuts et al. are still on the table. They can still happen. So they haven't been stopped, as such, the way the travel ban has literally been stopped.

Also I'm pretty sure if UK got woke and repealed Brexit the EU would welcome us back like the undeserving shitheel prodigal sons we are

I get that, Alfred - I'm talking in terms of the electorate themselves.

as far as ACA and taxes, the GOP in congress really only has until the end of this summer to make that work, and it doesn't look very likely to happen. The GOP caucuses in the Senate and the House don't agree, they're stymied by the reconciliation rules, and the Dem opposition is totally united. Historically, this is not a recipe for success for massive legislative overhauls, esp w an erratic, incompetent and unpopular President on the sidelines.

by the time next year rolls around, it's going to be mid-terms and GOP numbers are gonna be in the toilet.

A devil's advocate would argue ACA repeal is a prologue to Medicare for all. Terrible for those who get injured/sick from '19 to '22, but ultimately good.

Rejecting the Paris Accords may mean an international consensus with teeth. Universal carbon tariffs on nations who aren't meeting goals set by outside authorities. A better path, going forward.

At present, what's really at danger is American leadership of the free world. America didn't lead through fear, but shared values, and in 2016 it clearly demonstrated its internal political games trump values. That admirational/aspirational acceptance of one nation's leadership didn't come cheaply, and American voters threw it away with little thought, so some could have a tantrum.

the way the travel ban has literally been stopped.

it's not in the SC yet, where it will be upheld 5-4 IMO

re: Russia scandal - tbf the opinions of the electorate don't really matter, it's the opinions of people in Congress and the courts that matter

xp

Sanpaku otm

it's not in the SC yet, where it will be upheld 5-4 IMO

idk about this, we will see

by the time they rule the thing will have expired anyway

That admirational/aspirational acceptance of one nation's leadership didn't come cheaply, and American voters threw it away with little thought, so some could have a tantrum.

I wouldn't get too carried away with that admirational/aspirational thing.

No, or you could equally make the argument that if it could survive Iraq, Afghanistan and Kyoto, it can survive Paris.

America didn't lead through fear, but shared values

Yeah, this is way off.

I'm cool with some other country leading the free world tbh, America is a shitshow

I just got an email suggesting that if the US is withdrawing from Paris Accord others may follow. Would be the big worry right now, wouldn't it?

idk if other countries wanna follow the US's example right now

not gonna happen

Been thinking that America under trump has a lot of nerve thinking it's in any position to police the world.

So hope the idea that nobody wants to follow its lead is prevalent.

the biggest economies - China, India, Europe, etc. - are gonna stay in, they smell money.

Also I'm pretty sure if UK got woke and repealed Brexit the EU would welcome us back like the undeserving shitheel prodigal sons we are

― Who's puttin' sponge in the zings I once zung (stevie), Thursday, June 1, 2017 8:29 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Without a shadow of a doubt. But admitting a mistake or u-turning on something is seen as the biggest crime a politician can make. So: so not gonna happen.

I wouldn't get too carried away with that admirational/aspirational thing.

I realize "beacon on the hill" is self-serving rhetoric, but I'm pretty sure the world would be a darker place had the Axis or USSR won. Elites around the world wanted to live in liberal democracies, because they were educated in the US (or UK). Globally, things got better, and global trade flourished, but the pace of change was perhaps too fast for the industrial and agricultural belts in the US. More should have been done to moderate the pace, provide safety nets, and ensure that all the benefits didn't flow to those directing capital flows.

I just got an email suggesting that if the US is withdrawing from Paris Accord others may follow. Would be the big worry right now, wouldn't it?

― Stevolende, Thursday, June 1, 2017 8:39 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Find that hard to believe. Trump basically gave China a golden opportunity, on a silver platter, to join the 'sensible' nations and say: 'we aren't following this nation in decline with an idiot for prez but instead are joining the ranks of nations who want to do good'. And they would be otm.

Without a shadow of a doubt. But admitting a mistake or u-turning on something is seen as the biggest crime a politician can make. So: so not gonna happen.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, June 1, 2017 9:41 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think if business wants it enough or the pain of it happening is so great it will kill the party responsible, a way of u-turning without admitting the mistake and taking credit for it somehow might be thrown together. /wishful thinking

brexit/Trump have, I sense, given the rest of the world a sense that the UK/Us are kind of sick and messed up places at the moment and no one really wants to follow their lead as brexit/trump both seem pretty catastrophic mistakes, both morally and financially

yup

Well yeah with you there (though also on the /wishfulthinking part). It killing the party (parties) responsible would be a dream come true but that's just too much to wish for tbh.

xp

re Watergate

I'm talking in terms of the electorate themselves

Nixon's craven sliminess, particularly once the tapes came out, was no longer deniable to anyone but the zealots. Woody Allen once said, "In my (early '50s) high school, everyone knew Nixon was a crook."

As the maxim goes, it was the coverup, not the initial crimes.

Alfred is correct, there's no Dem majorities and no responsible wing of the GOP.

Worth mentioning that the "only the US, Nicaragua and Syria aren't part of the Paris Accord" is off base because Nicaragua didn't sign because they thought the accord didn't go far enough - they're apparently on track to be 90 percent renewable energy by 2020. So it's really just Trump and Assad.

Nixon had had to try to explain having accepted the dog Checkers back in 52 way before he got the Presidency. So why did he get the presidency. I need to read that bio I got of him a couple of months back.

brexit/Trump have, I sense, given the rest of the world a sense that the UK/Us are kind of sick and messed up places at the moment and no one really wants to follow their lead as brexit/trump both seem pretty catastrophic mistakes, both morally and financially

― Who's puttin' sponge in the zings I once zung (stevie), Thursday, June 1, 2017 8:46 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is really otm imho. Seeing how enemies Merkel and Schulz are battling it out in the German elections, yet Schulz actually sticking up for Merkel becz Trump gave her and Germany shit... It is quite something. I don't think there are more than five countries in the world right now who'd point to the UK/US and say: "Yes, this path is something we should embrace and follow."

Same with China following suit on the accords now, which I think is a very good thing for the climate, but politically they just had to tap in the ball into an open goal: Trump makes a fool of the US, so very very easy for China to gain at least some standing, in other words: profit. They profit from Trump's stupidity. A lot of nations and politicians, for better or worse, will try to do this.

"A warm-up band introduced Trump by playing the George Gershwin classic 'Summertime'."

turnin' up the heat

re: global American hegemony/leadership - the jig was pretty much up after the Iraq War, this is just the nail in the coffin. We may be the only country that can globally project military power, but that counts for less and less these days.

http://i.imgur.com/JXkE7pD.jpg

lol

Clinton blames her data team for election loss. Data team leader tweets (see images), then, mysteriously, deleted them. pic.twitter.com/NFE1QvdIcx

— Jacob Matthew Dix (@Jacob606) June 1, 2017