Tour de France 2017

*VG emerges from the wilds*

VG: "What happened?"

All of us on here: "Everyone mysteriously withdrew after the second day except Andrew Talansky and now it's the Tour de Andrew Talansky and he's just taking it easy riding along."

;_;

don't joke about things like that Ned, you'll jinx it

Poor Andrew.

at least we don't have to talk about Tejay this year u_u

feel bad for Dusseldorf that they didnt get a nice sunny day .. wouldve been nice to see a full-gas shootout on the time trails. But ugh what nasty conditions

Awful Valverde crash. multiple broken bones incl knee & ankle apparently. Rotten luck

fyi

showing a bit of Aussie bias here but:
Team Orica-Scott have a great "backstage pass" YouTube series that's worth checking out. They are a fun bunch of guys & they get usually some good ride footage

https://youtu.be/VrBezl2XgRg

Didnt realize Luke Durbige was one of today's crashes, poor bloke :(

Cycling crashes make me wince at the best of times but watching Valverde clattering into that barrier was pretty rough... a lot worse for him obviously. Izaguirre is also out with a lumbar fracture.

I'm really glad for Geraint Thomas though, I've been watching his career for a long time. It's a shame it's unlikely he'll get a chance to have a team rally around him as a GC contender in the forseeable future.

I wondered what it would take, after umpteen years of actively avoiding it while Ed or Emsk had it on, to get me interested in the Tour de France.

It turns out, this is it. And now I am going to spend the next few weeks watching Tony Martin and his specially designed by you-know-who bike. Please be gentle with me.

I believe he'll only ride the Kraftwerk bike - if that's the one you mean - on the two time trials. But it's good to have you on board eiter way :)

Think Thomas will have to leave Sky if he wants to go for his own GC chances, with Froome staying for three more years probably.

So my boy was in third place, and then coming round a corner, he slipped and he took like a dozen bikes out with him, in a crash and then a pile-up?!?!? Is it always like this? That's nerve wracking!

I don't understand the rules. Do you get penalised for a crash? Can you make up the time? He was Top 5 yesterday and now he's somewhere down around 180? That's rub.

At least Ralf will be relieved the bike is OK. (That's a joke btw)

There's no penalties for crashes usually, unless someone does something REALLY stupid deliberately, which is rare. Crashes are more of an accepted hazard more than anything, and at the start of a three-week race it's conceivable you could make up the time. Yer man Tony probably isn't going to be too bothered about his placing though, he tends to be more interested in going for individual stage wins in the TdF rather than being a GC contender

But that was an intense finish today, and an impressive breakaway from both riders - I didn't know before yesterday about Phinney's terrible injuries or the fact that Offredo was attacked with a fucking box cutter on a training ride

I haven't watched a pedalstroke of cycling since the sky doping scandal broke. However I might be getting sucked back in. I'm sitting in a hotel in Copenhagen wondering when the Eurosport highlights are on.

Brailsford still a very shady, murky affair, so many questions still, so I can only empathize with turning your back on it. (not worth it seeing today's highlights tbh, snooze stage w/ Kittel the best by miles). Froome says he "just lost some skin" after falling today. He'll prob be ok. I'm still bummed Valverde is out.

Lookit this bike, Ed! !

4th place😕Couldn't reach my goal but my head is up for the next weeks.Thanks to all the fans that support me #TeamKatushaAlpecin. #tdwsport pic.twitter.com/PyKQBFZsZo

— Tony Martin (@tonymartin85) July 1, 2017

L@@K! AT! IT!!!

https://www.canyon.com/kraftwerk/

Thank you for the explanation, UU-G. It's kind of overwhelming coming into a new thing. So much to learn.

Yeah today was a bit of a 'doze on the couch and let the coverage play out' stage. Nice run in at the end, though.

one fascinating thing about the tour de france is you know there's a whole hidden underbelly of special underwear gear. separate teams develop their own top secret lines of underwear for their riders - it's where the competitive edge comes from. but no one talks about it because they don't want that to be the face of the sport.

I thought you were taking the piss about the underwear thing, but apparently some of the teams are genuinely having a bunfight because the scruffy Welsh one has actually been using special go-faster pellets in his 'skin suit'?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/02/nicolas-portal-defends-team-sky-accusations-skin-suit-against-rules

Next they'll be giving Gee special go faster piercings. (Carbon. Fibre of course)

Lol never seen that before, Sagan really is a showman

That he is, and in the best possible way.

Damn, stay good Peter. Like,I remember the ass grab and I know he's just a person and not some kind of innocent, but I enjoy his current combo of greatness and decent, goofy, non-malevolence so much that I have a feeling of actual anxiety about him somehow going wrong. Like, I don't wanna know _more_, I just wanna be able to keep seeing him win like a maniac then put on moto goggles. It's not even like ~fandom~ as I've experienced it.

How many racers can have their nose in the wind with 370m to the line while staring down their opponents waiting for them to pounce and still stick it to them?

How the hell is Sagan going to be allowed to get away with something like this? That elbow-jab! I can't see any way that's not deliberate. Gone right off Sagan after that.

The #segan elbow in all its glory#TDF17 pic.twitter.com/SGCY0MtYtk

— Andy Jolley (@ajjolley) July 4, 2017

Yes, yes, I am hooked now.

Exactly the bit where the trees are covering the footage seems essential imo. If Cav hit him there w/ his bike and Sagan got out of balance.

If intentional the elbow is inexcusable, but I don't think Cav's in the clear tbh. He shouldn't have tried to force himself into the space that wasn't a space anyway. But it's what he does.

Zora just linked me this. Seems the judges took a dim view and penalised Sagan for it:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/arnaud-demare-wins-tour-de-france-stage-four-crash-blighted-finale-339528?utm_content=manual&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=cyclingweekly

Sagan out of the TdF. Harsh.

So first they penalise him, and then ten minutes later take him out completely. Not a word on Demare obv. Thought I'd hate the organisation in the second week of the tour this year but here we are. Again.

I thought the penalty seemed fair, but exclusion does seem overly harsh.

I did like the plucky Belgian who was way out in front all day. The Guardian reckoned it was a practical joke, haha.

Guillaume van Keirsbulck one of the most beautiful names in the peleton, and there's stiff competition. He's done his sponsors a big favor today.

Sagan's exclusion doesn't sit well with me. Maybe especially because it's on Cav's behalf; nothing against him but boy he's done way worse things in his day and never got punished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJsPAIhuVls

^ 2013: Cav drives Veelers to the ground.

(second 50)

Seen replay after replay: the decision to take out Sagan is an absolute disgrace. No way does the punishment fit the "crime". Cav's team pushing for a bigger punishment after the TdF already relegated him in the daily results plus -80 points is nagl to the max.

Well that was...odd. (My sis will be having a fit -- she loves Sagan and thinks Cavendish is trash.)

And yeah van Kiersbluck is all right by me. Kinda loved how he went for it, realized he was alone, and then essentially shrugged and charged.

Ned's sis otm! Cav is trash. His best days are long behind him, but he's always been this way; a daredevil chancer on the wrong side of right most of the time. There's an evil demeanor in his riding that I just do not care for.

i just got back from camping what happ---

;_;

D:

nooooooo not my Pete.

Cav seems to pull this kinda shit all the time & always ends up taking other ppl down ... i like how much he wants to win but it's still infuriating that shit doesnt stick to him

he took out 2 dudes in the omnium at Rio & still got silver

watching the replay, team manager said given illness recovery & slow showing so far this stage was critical for cav to finish & show that he's ready to win - feels more ominous & telling now

exactly the kind of situ ripe for cav to take his brand of stupid risks

interestingly: sagan nudged greipel the day before & after cav's crash, greipel's team manager saud greipel told him ""Twice in a row is too much. He (sagan) isn't my friend anymore from now on'."

but on twitter recanted later:

Sometimes I should watch images before I say something. Apologies to @petosagan as I think that decision of the judge is too hard.

— Andre Greipel (@AndreGreipel) July 4, 2017

I understand that I am new to this, but being new to this means I come at an incident and individuals with no pre-existing judgements.

I watched the clips of that incident about 20 times, from 3 or 4 different angles, and thought it clear what happened and who was at fault.

However everyone else talking about the incident seemed to have seen their own version of it, depending on which cyclist they supported. Like, how much their interpretations were altered by what the believed to be the 'character' of the athlete. An act of aggression could not be read as such because the aggressor "apologised"; the injured cyclist "deserved" what happened to him and so on.

It's really a reminder that people don't see incidents; they see perspectives of what they believe participants personalities to be. Fascinating.

otm x infinity

but that's the thing with cycling how it looks on tv is not always indicative of what is going on; like the iceberg being whatever percent submerged etc

it doesn't allow for reality of a 40mph sprint ie the reflexive instinct of a rider to square themselves against those coming up too close

obv the uci made the judgement based on how it looks & since Cav is clearly out of the race a lesser penalty on Sagan wouldn't ameliorate the fact that quikstep lost their best rider

it's optics and i get it but it isn't nearly as cut & dried as the footage makes it seem

imo

seems like a clear intentional elbow to me.

internet comments about cycling are almost more partisan than any other sport, i find.

looks like he was trying to balance to me.

rip quintana

i should've made the caveat that i don't really know what I'm talking about and am an extremely casual and intermittent viewer of cycling

It's crystal clear on every video that Cav's already falling before Sagan sticks his elbow out, but whatever.

Froome winning some time on lacklustre Quintana (Giro-tiredness) and Contador, Porte unable to do anything, and this is shaping up to be a very, very boring Tour already.

The Sagan/Cavendish thing has me annoyed, because the commisaires are just so capricious and don't even pretend to be biased when it comes to certain riders. VegemiteGrrl otm, as is LBI - I have nothing against Porte but I've never seen him do much to back up commentators' faith that he's one of the main favourites for the win. Unless I'm forgetting something.

Oh well, I mostly watch this for aerial shots of the French countryside and old churches and chateaus and stuff anyway.

OK not mostly, but

Don't underestimate the chateaus and churches! It's why they plan these languid stages: the départements pay for having the TdF pass through them, expecting more tourists and $$$ etc. It's probably why the TdF hasn't been nearly as exciting as the Giro or Vuelta as of late.

Porte will have to step up his game big time if he wants to avoid becoming a second Cadel Evans (also BMC tbh). Early days obv, but it seems Froome will walk this. Quintana seems way too tired from the Giro (what a race that was!), and will only lose more time in the time trial; Contador seemingly isn't up to speed either, and neither is Porte: hate clingers-on'ers like Evans and Porte the most tbh. Either die trying or don't try to win at all.

TdF will regret disqualifying Sagan; one of the very few who can colour the race, give it something extra.

Bodnar is a beast, great ride by him. Cool to see Daryl Impey made it out 5th place.

Bardet though - kid left his heart and entrails on that course. It wasnt pretty but it was probably as full gas as he's ever gone ... and with Froome nipping at his heels! Froome decisive as expected

Bummed that Rigo didnt pull out a bigger performance

Love this photo

Bardet #TDF pic.twitter.com/BQbkpTPXP9

— Ramiro (@Rama_mtto) July 22, 2017

xpost then again Rigo went up a spot overall and he crushed the climb so <3

Great photo, that.

So fucking annoying the TdF gave the prize for most attacking rider to Barguil instead of De Gendt. That's chauvinism for ya.

Landa is exactly 1 second behind Bardet for place 3 btw. If Landa decides to attack tomorrow I'm all for it, but it's prob so not gonna happen.

Yeah I heard the grumping about Barguil over De Gendt, that did seem weird on numerous levels. Would be interesting re Landa making the final day more than just a breeze-in (except for the sprinters).

Bardet's going to be sweating bullets to keep that lead. Landa's made it pretty clear he wants to podium. Should be a good day!

Have to go to a sleepover tonight & out again tomorrow night, hope i can squeeze in time to watch!!

Don't think Landa will go for third; though there's the chance the peloton breaks in the final Champs Elysee round, and I can see him push forward if that happens. I'm done with the truce on the last stage tbh. As nice as traditions can be, it's sport. It doesn't feel right.

xp

Did Landa make that clear? I must've missed that (not seen a lot of it today tbh)

the talk from commentary was that he had said he wanted to podium

landa can't take it out on sky, but he can take it out on bardet, and i wouldn't surprise me if he tried. and if he tries, i can't imagine it wont work. dude was pulling climbs _with his mouth closed_. he should be a little pissed. i don't really care either way, but if he wanted to do it i think he could.

It'll be interesting to see if Landa gets Sky's tacit blessing to go for it. I think usually the whole team hangs back to cross the line with the yellow jersey.

"tacit blessing" as apt a description i've ever seen :)

if Landa wants to try this at all (I don't think he will), I doubt Kwiat will be of any help

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFXNolkXcAAGlMk.jpg

:D

De Gendt not getting that most attacking rider prize:

Don't care. I stopped caring about this whole charade after the ridiculously amateuristic Peyresourde bidon incident. (Bardet wins, Uran and Bennett get penalised -20 seconds for taking a bidon from someone during the climb, Uran's team leader posts a video of Bardet doing EXACTLY the same thing - first reply from the jury: "we can't be certain he drank from it because there's no video of that" - result later that evening: instead of penalising Bardet, they reverse their decision re: Uran and Bennett)

xp lol

Think he'll give it a half-assed go just to scare AG2R a bit.

Groenewegen in the sprints this tour finished something like 6th, 5th, 3rd, 2nd and a win on the last day. Good learning curve. Thought he might be a choker but here we are.

That was heartbreaking for Greipel! He accelerated just a split second too late and it was all over. German TV tried to interview him but he was just verklempt.

(I wish my German could keep up at that speed - they were definitely talking about Kraftwerk, after a long passage of going on about Tony Martin so I assume they were talking about Ralf Hütter's bike?)

Sorry to say but think Greipel's over the hill. His timing was way off. He's had a tour he'll want to forget quickly.

You make me wish I listened to the German telly now though. Tony Martin would make a great Kraftwerk stand-in.

Mostly they went on and on about how they wished Marcel Kittel was still in the race!

They showed about 20 seconds of Froome with his kid, saying "yeah, yeah, Froome gewinnt wieder, süß familie" then immediately cut off to find some German they could interview.

It's so interesting how the coverage differs in each country.

I'm sad it's over TBH. What / when is the next Bicycle Thing?

Yeah it def differs in each country. Think European side commentary trumps commentary in USA and Oz by a mile knowledge wise, been pouring one out for Ned and VG all TdF. Interesting too was that Groenewegen was completely composed in the post-race winners "interview" ("team did a good job, went well" etc) but he was sobbing like a baby on Dutch telly, just a mess of tears and insane happiness.

Next big round is La Vuelta, the tour in Spain. But now that you've enjoyed this and are lost without cycling anyway: Next Saturday is the next classic, Clasica San Sebastián \m/

RT @NOSsport: Dylan Groenewegen wordt vlak voor de huldiging gegrepen door zijn vriendin. #spontaan #TDF2017 pic.twitter.com/dxbEj5SF7u

— Jarno Gottemaker (@jajarno) July 23, 2017

Groenewegen's gf drawing him towards her before he steps on the stage is ace.

Next big round is La Vuelta, the tour in Spain. But now that you've enjoyed this and are lost without cycling anyway: Next Saturday is the next classic, Clasica San Sebastián \m/

Yeah I was about to ask if we should start a general non-TdF cycling thread -- finally started watching most of the big races properly thanks to the NBC Sports Gold package over here, so I first saw the Vuelta last year and rather enjoyed it. Different landscapes, different competitors (to a degree) -- fun race. Will be busy this Saturday so I'll have to miss that race.

Think European side commentary trumps commentary in USA and Oz by a mile knowledge wise, been pouring one out for Ned and VG all TdF.

Hahah, nah, VG is the one who's been suffering with Phil/Paul; I've been doing just fine with Keenan and McEwen, really enjoyed the change-up on various levels.

And yes, cheers for Groenewegen, stellar work in the clutch.

Mostly they went on and on about how they wished Marcel Kittel was still in the race!

Ha, yeah, him and Sagan would have been great in all this but such is life. (And jury decisions.)

Oh yeah, hold on, that AG2R rider who proposed to his partner early on in the stage, do we know if that was successful?

(Also will add I enjoyed what I saw of La Course -- had to do a bit of catch up both days, nice pursuit in Marseille there.)

Oh yeah, hold on, that AG2R rider who proposed to his partner early on in the stage, do we know if that was successful?

Update on the @LeTour marriage proposal by Cyril Gautier.... she said YES

— Robbie McEwen (@mcewenrobbie) July 23, 2017

Hurrah!

this gave me a wry lol

Poll: Who was the Most Combative Rider of the 2017 Tour de France? #TDF17 #TDF2017

— Neal Rogers (@nealrogers) July 23, 2017

I can't choose.

i feel bad for Greipel but he waited too long to make his move.

froome & babby froome super cute

weird seeing comments on matthews green jersey that he didnt deserve it / belongs to sagan etc
like i get being salty but dude rode his way into that jersey, cmon

Once again I'm left wondering what Gary Imlach does for the rest of the year. I might be alone here but I really like the ITV coverage, they all have a kind of wry humour that I enjoy apart from anything else.

Anyone who got any of the jerseys deserved it despite big names dropping out imo

(Also will add I enjoyed what I saw of La Course -- had to do a bit of catch up both days, nice pursuit in Marseille there.)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 23 July 2017 23:26 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

First stage was good, but it seems like the second stage's format didn't work for most people, including the riders themselves and I'm inclined to agree. I suppose it's a minor victory for women's cycling that it's double the length of previous editions, but I don't understand why they got rid of the Champs Elysees sprint they had in previous years tbh

weird seeing comments on matthews green jersey that he didnt deserve it / belongs to sagan etc
like i get being salty but dude rode his way into that jersey, cmon

― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:03 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

See I follow a lot of commentary but have not heard anything even remotely close to this. Matthews not deserving green? Belongs to Sagan?! Different strokes I guess, idgi.

Yeah I was about to ask if we should start a general non-TdF cycling thread --
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:23 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We def should, and need one. Consider it done.

La Course was a bit weird. But the ultra-conservative ASO deserves an inch of praise for experimenting and not just hosting a women's race but also trying to make it an attractive race. Don't think they succeeded this year, but it's a process since 2013 and it's not going away, which is good.

La Course Stage 1 was p great but I havent had a chance to see Stage 2 except for a few higlight clips.

i'd be into a general cycling thread. i get a lot of the non tour events bcz of my tdf event season pass with nbcsn so i should get san seb & vuelta i think
i dont usually watch but i might with ongoing chats :)

re commentating

most annoying thing this year for me re Phil & Paul is their endless nonsensical fanfics about what riders are saying or their motivations all spouted with this air of knowitallness, its really ridiculous

it's like listening to two kids playing TdF with little cycling toys and making up stories about the riders

lol

i would rather bob & christian & jens do their own commentary from upstairs tbh

La Course was a circus, ridiculous format. I love cycling so much, I honestly find it heartbreaking that it's 2017 and they can't sort themselves out. Plenty of major sporting events from Wimbledon to the London Marathon have parity in coverage and prize money between the men's and women's competitions. Even the bloody Boat Race! There's no excuse for the sports which haven't got their acts together on this.

Honourable mention for British Cycling's stance obv.

Dan Martin rode the last 12 stages with two fractured vertebrae.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martin-diagnosed-with-two-fractured-vertebrae-after-tour-de-france-top-10/

jesus

Yech indeed.

Hey didn't Le Bateau say he'd start a general cycling thread?

Started a punless Rolling Pro Cycling thread, let's see how it fares.