Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

Don't really know what point Frederick is trying to make itt but fwiw I also disagree that if someone *were* to shoot Chait and say "Chapo made me do it" that this would change anything about the situation, people do this kinda shit and claim all sorts of motivations. Gun accessibility + poor mental health system, as mentioned upthread, is p much all there is to it.

I'd apply that reasoning to most right wing shock jocks as well, except when we get into the territory of someone like Alex Jones, whose entire shtick is feeding paranoia, warning of a coming conflict and never breaks kayfabe (unless he's in court)...that's a bit murkier. But I don't think either Russia conspiracy shit or Chapo flippancy is really comparable to that.

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, July 5, 2017 4:36 PM (six days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a lot of ppl were saying this back when ppl shot those congressmen & it struck me as a very partisan argument. either these ideas deserve some credit for the actions of their followers or they dont, but liberals being inconsistent on this is lazy

deej, I understand that it seems convenient to have my side be blameless and the other side to blame but I do think you need to have some nuance: people whose public persona is obviously kidding and people whose public persona is dead serious cannot be put on the same level.

fwiw I think there are plenty of conservative pundits whose shtick is snarky hyperbole directed at the left too, and they shouldn't be blamed for their followers either.

but Alex Jones strikes me as different because, even though he may claim it's performance art and plenty of ppl obviously tune in for the lolz, within the world the show establishes there is no ambiguity whatsoever that his followers are under attack from very sinister forces and that violent, armed resistance is a legitimate way to fight that. That provides a stronger moral responsibility than if it was just zings, and if we had a high profile leftist radio DJ stridently calling for armed insurrection against the US govt (and yes I know these ppl exist but not w/ Jones' standing), I'd say the same for them.

obviously as a leftist I'm more likely to take right-wing snark seriously than left wing snark, being the target of it and all, but I don't think there's much room for interpretation with someone like Alex Jones

iow: the ideas totally deserve credit for the actions of their followers but you can't divorce that from tone and context

Women /minorities: "LOL cool story. You will bow down to our proclivities, or your lily white cult can gtfo of our party. Have a good day!" pic.twitter.com/jWQatShCU8

— Dude Kembro 🌈 (@HillaryWasRight) July 13, 2017

do we really need to pile on some random guy

they're all at it

Imagine being a wealthy white guy and telling this to poor minorities who vote for Democrats pic.twitter.com/QFy141R94p

— Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) July 13, 2017

Eh, clean shot. The "persecution" cries over this very much amount to "we want to have it both ways".

"all"

are chapo people crying 'persecuction'?? not sure i follow

Menaker's tweet thread from earlier today certainly reads that way. Actually most of the angry fan responses to the Johnson tweet as well.

Like what? I see things like:

The thing that drives Chapo haters--at least on the Democratic-Liberal side--the most insane is that they can't get us fired from anywhere

These people have been doing the job of Democratic party base management for various media companies, non profits and think tanks for years

Their job was to act as gatekeepers for what is progressive & liberal on behalf of a political and donor class hostile to left wing politics

The popularity of Bernie and the success of Corbyn, especially among the young, is deeply frightening, alienating to them

So the first one, if you really pushed it? But it's about how they aren't punishable in the way that someone writing for the Times or even The Nation would be. The rest are a political assessment.

assuming the quote is out of context/poorly conveyed, (in context of episode they were talking about clinton party hacks), going after an out-of-context quote in bad faith is basically what the chapo folk do constantly, and is what everyone on twitter does constantly

Twitter is a fucking cesspool that should be ignored in general, though - the responses to that Johnson tweet represent the tiny minority of Democrats who wouldn't vote for Bernie for reasons entirely separate from politics. They should be ignored. They don't represent liberalism and barely represent the Democratic Party - they're sports fans who've adopted internal party politics the way some people adopt the Giants vs. the Dodgers.

Which is probably true of "left twitter" in many cases, too, but the only part of that I follow are the Chapo hosts who articulate actual political reasons for why they disliked Hillary and the direction of the Democrats under Clinton/Obama.

podcast dudes demanding anyone "bend the knee" deserve mockery imo. i wish people who hate these guys would try ridicule instead of feigned moral outrage. or just ignore them altogether, they're popular but they're not really that popular

otoh a lot of these people would probably fail and it’d end in a classic “nerd tries to out-quip bully and gets totally humiliated” situation, probably ignoring CTH is the best option for people who don't like it

why did that twitter user above equate "women/minorities" with centrists and the democratic establishment? i mean, i know why but it's a completely disingenuous assessment to put women and minorities on the one side and "socialists" on the other.

it's mostly centrists trying to frame things this way but chapo has played into it by relishing their "dirtbag-ness." dragging out these stupid intra-left fights is good for clicks and listens and whatever.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/13/opinion/millennial-labor-movement.html

here is a good article by a black woman about the need to re-center labor in our political discussions. she talks about how her family was hurt by the evisceration of collective bargaining and the decline of midwestern manufacturing, processes overseen and supported by democrats. she didn't need to disparage other causes to make her case!

the bernie bro/brocialist nonsense was a slur and the worst thing anyone who cares about economic justice can do is embody it

xp
If you read the quote he's not talking about himself or CTH as the lieges.

I get the quote, it still sounds silly to me. if one of the keeping it 1600 guys told the sanders wing to "bend the knee", I'm pretty sure the CTH guys would justifiably mock it mercilessly

If one of the 1600 guys showed any sign of having an idea or being able to win an election, maybe not.

The bend the knee is in response to the success Corbyn had in England and with how well things like Medicare for All poll here - you can disagree with its applicability here or whatever, but it's not like they're just saying it to say it.

overall I like Chapo but there's too much dude energy around this thing, dude energy is a dangerous force

Wait, hasn't both the Keeping it 1600 guys worked on a winning presidential campaign?

xpost i agree w/that and i have no interest in them or cum town as podcasts but whenever reactionaries use that to smear the faint revival of actual (diverse) leftist energy i feel like going to war for them

Wait, hasn't both the Keeping it 1600 guys worked on a winning presidential campaign?

With one of the most charismatic politicians in American history after a disastrous GOP administration. How well has the Obama team done since 2008? Congress, Brexit, May, etc.?

If I recall correctly they won again four years later. Am I getting that right?

it's bad that it was taken out of context or whatever by notable person anyone has ever heard of before @HillaryWasRight but c'mon "get this through your fucking head: you must bend the knee to us. Not the other way around" sounds like some nerd-ass 17yo trying to sound tuff on WoW

It wasn't taken out of context by that twitter dude, but in some stupid article that I can't be bothered to read, but it also called it a coherent and practical agenda, which only makes it more laughable. And I don't really care, I just think what milo wrote was funny too. The Menaker tweets are funny as well, especially when he says that his podcast shows a 'critical mass' of fans, which frighten all the pundits, which is so stupid and self-absorbed.

tl;dr: The Dems should go left, and the chapo guys seem unpleasant and unintelligent.

If I recall correctly they won again four years later. Am I getting that right?

especially when he says that his podcast shows a 'critical mass' of fans

hmm

We are a tiny part of this, but the success of our stupid podcast shows a critical mass of people understand these people are useless

Lol. Hm, I guess you're right, these three twitter dudes really do have better credentials when it comes to winning elections.

what is the point of you

Oh FFS. The context of that quote is from the post-Labour election episode, explicitly about how Corbyn did far better than anybody expected and was shit upon by the more neoliberal types. and how the point was that coming right out and fully embracing more progressive positions actually had electoral results. It was a response to the more Establishment types who go for the bloodless, non-ideological data science and polling who hold that its the only way to win.

I posted the link upthread more from a sense of bafflement at the kinda thinking that would invoke ManBunKen in this

kingfish OTM, i can't believe how hysterical everyone is getting over this. it was taken completely out of context, "we" does not mean "chapo trap house," he was talking about the left & progressives immediately after the UK election.

Chapo is successful because FINALLY the left has something visceral like Limbaugh.

You sound like that isn't the worst thing ever.

having something visceral and impassioned instead of the lifeless and toothless tone of the DNC? yes it's great

also corbyn recently said he got his ideas for campaigning from bernie which warms my heart tbh

Not because of celebrity worship or whatever but just that like taking your unabashedly populist message to people and saying what you want to do seemingly works

There are, like, other political institutions than Rush Limbaugh and the DNC. It's not an either or. And if you're taking your clues from Rush Limbaugh, I'll doubt how deeply felt your leftist convictions are. And how smart your strategy is. It's not as if the right are doing that well at the moment.

The right has controlled discourse and policy for like 45 years, not sure what exactly you are talking about

Politics isn't reducible to policies. When you try that, you lose. Of course, when you speak to a bunch of soybean growers, you'd better be in favor of price supports, and when you speak to bankers, you'd better be in favor of financial deregulation, but both sides know that much already. Once that's out of the way, the emotional juices had better flow in your favor.

And if you're taking your clues from Rush Limbaugh, I'll doubt how deeply felt your leftist convictions are.

lmao this is amazing. don't be dense. i'm not talking about his politics, i'm talking about his style. I would put Howard Stern and Bob Grant in the same category, visceral & impassioned.

I got that it was his style, and my point still stands. You think you can separate his style from his lack of ethics, morals, his willingness to lie and manipulate, his hate mongering, etc?

yes

style = passionate broadcasting

I don't hear Rush in their DNA at all, there's more George Carlin.

Sure. They have a lot in common with Bob Grant, though I doubt they ever heard him. Felix is the only Stern fan I think, but I think there's a similarity in candor there.