Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

yet another unwitting glamourization of a shitty and not that interesting guy

you know he wasn't the only person involved. he wasn't even there for the famous murders. there is a whole cult full of people and personalities.

of course don't let that stop you from judging a movie that hasn't been made yet.

Oliver Stone made a fucking 9/11 movie five years after the fact. What's the damage here? I understand people not being excited about broken record QT making this, but why the indignation over making a movie about a very famous murder that happened nearly 50 years ago?

World Trade Center and United 93 are so much more contemptible and offensive than anything QT has done.

agree xpost

I am still something of a Tarantino believer sigh - and think there is the possibility of a good film from this. I like the wayward nature of his filmography - he hasn't just ground out endless variations of Pulp Fiction, he made two period Westerns in a row etc - and this seems to me an unexpected and interesting choice. His first foray into non-fiction - it could be his Zodiac.

Martha Marcy May Marlene was the perfect pseudo-Manson movie imo. Maintained just the right tone without veering into exploitation. I guess it's pretty much a guarantee that Tarantino will maniacally whip the wheel directly towards exploitation, which is what gives me pause here (given certain details mentioned above).

v highly doubt this will be as good a Zodiac

xp

this could suck, it could be great idk his last two films don't inspire confidence though

(xposts) Ditto. Arguing how it should be made, or who should make it, that's an interesting argument. Arguing that it shouldn't be made--that no one has a right to make it because the events were too traumatic--I don't get that at all.

These murders were spectacularly exploited by the media from the first days afterward and that exploitation has never stopped. Further exploitation is simply a continuation of a well-established 50 year trend.

that's pretty much Charlie's stance, too

yeah i don't really gaf about that

xp

xp In that one regard Charlie would be correct.

I have to admit that I would be v curious to see a Dennis Wilson character in this - the Two Lane Blacktop connection might make it irresistable for QT

(xpost) Mountains of exploitation to be sure, but I wouldn't call the Jeff Guinn book exploitative (or, from whatever dim memory I have of it, Ed Sanders' book)--they were thoughtful attempts to try to extract some glimmer of understanding out of what happened, which is what I'd want from the thoughtful film that I think is there. Which is why, to me, Tarantino seems particularly ill-suited for this.

Martha Marcy May Marlene was the perfect pseudo-Manson movie imo. Maintained just the right tone without veering into exploitation.

yeah but that movie is like...so good. kind of a miracle it got made at all

I love it! Probably among my top ten of the decade.

Last year's Tower, about Charles Whitman's murders in 1966, might be instructive. The filmmaker's were clearly sensitive to making the film primarily about the victims, not Whitman. I think they leaned too far in that direction--I wanted to know more Whitman than they provided--but it was far from exploitative, and what happened there was arguably even more dumbfoundingly and terrifyingly random than with Manson.

Martha Marcy May Marlene has been on my watchlist since forever, I should really get around to that

This really has nothing to do with Tarantino, but MMMM is one of the films that these three guys sort of make together, Sean Durkin, Antonio Campos and Josh Mond, and pretty much all their films are worthwhile. Simon Killer and James White are really good as well, and heard that Christine should be good too. Worth following what they do.

tarantino might surprise me on this, i don't think he's incapable of it talent-wise. if it's going to be made, i'll withhold judgement. i suspect it'll be closer to "not good" than "great" but we'll see.

also Pinkerton's tweet is dumb.

idk I wouldn't really expect historical veracity from QT so some kind of alternative/revisionism might make sense

would lol if movie ends with a race war

Or with the Beatles recording 'Helter Skelter'.

flash forward to Yoko hunting down and murdering Mark David Chapman

Is the 1976 tv movie, Helter Skelter worth watching?

The guy who played Manson was good, that's all I remember about it.

(xposts) Ditto. Arguing how it should be made, or who should make it, that's an interesting argument. Arguing that it shouldn't be made--that no one has a right to make it because the events were too traumatic--I don't get that at all.

― clemenza, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:13 PM (forty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think anyone here has made that argument. There have been some pretty good films about famous murders. In Cold Blood. Executioner's Song. There's just no evidence that Tarantino has the gravitas to treat it as anything more than an exercise in style w a "funny" wardrobe and choice tunes. Which yeah is kind of gross.

I saw Helter Skelter when it first aired (15 at the time), rewatched it a couple of years ago. I liked it better at 15, to put it charitably. Stephen Railsback does all right by Manson, but it's really a vanity project for Bugliosi, and they make things even worse with bad cover versions of the White Album.

If your argument is restricted to Tarantino, Hadrian, we're basically in agreement (although I'll still hope for the best).

Yeah would say I also don't wanna see Greg Araki do this.

Bugliosi is kind of insufferable.

Get Vincent Gallo and Lana Del Rey and have the resonances be weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ifMbYfdTQ

this one is a really fascinating primary footage documentary. featuring all the original cult members and hangers on, seemingly given their chance to tell their side of the story. the girls are all sitting around with shotguns. there is another segment where they play some instrumental music for a while. this is actually the only Manson related film i've watched in its entirety.

I am just as uninterested in the details of the Manson case (and always have been) as I am in any future films by the video-store dork.

oh god, Eazy

I know, sounds terrible unless it's somehow not. Lohan too.

flash forward to Yoko hunting down and murdering Mark David Chapman

― nomar, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:58 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck. yes.

I just watched that documentary that Adam linked to. Its pretty mindblowing. Cheers

Me too! Full version (1:21) on YouTube. So surprised never to have seen any of that footage before considering how many times this story has been repackaged on TV. And seeing Squeaky Fromme hold forth like that just a couple years out from her G. Ford attempt. This provides a vastly more comprehensive picture of how many people got caught up in the family than than anything I've read or seen before, + how pervasively violent that scene was apart from the more notorious killings.

huh link wouldn't load for me, said it had been removed

^^ I got that (removed), too

FYI Randy California estate I think the dudes who did the music for this nicked Spirit's Taurus, you shld lawyer up again

this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMo5jEnL5Ng&t=2s

Hrm not working here I watched via Roku

Type in "Manson Family documentary" and you'll get a longer version (1:20) of the same thing.

The longer version loads fine.

(Spirit really pick their enemies...)

flash forward to Yoko hunting down and murdering Mark David Chapman

― nomar, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:58 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am still holding out hope that this happens in real life

btw is there a consensus on the best book to read on the manson murders? i've somehow never read helter skelter -- assume that's a good place to start?

(Spirit really pick their enemies...)

yeah Bobby Beausoleil/Jimmy Page are one degree of (Kenneth Anger) separation, wiser probably to steer clear of these guys

flash forward to Yoko hunting down and murdering Mark David Chapman

― nomar, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:58 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am still holding out hope that this happens in real life

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:32 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

YES

Get Vincent Gallo and Lana Del Rey and have the resonances be weird.

― Eazy, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:23 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

o
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J.D.: If you want just the murders, probably Helter Skelter or Ed Sanders' The Family. If you want a wider view of Manson's whole life, the book I mentioned a couple of times earlier, Jeff Guinn's Manson, is excellent. (I read Ed Sanders' Sharon Tate book last year and thought it was just okay.)