Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

Visceral, raging brutality is often present throughout Lynch's work. Why would this surprise anyone?

there's a difference between surprise and disgust

It was a tad fucked that Richard was strangling his grandmother's throat as she was giving him the combo for the safe. I suppose that's Lynch establishing he's full out psycho, but I dunno, felt forced?

(xpost) I get that. But you don't sit and watch a Lynch feature not expecting to be occasionally disgusted. Except for maybe "The Straight Story".

felt...forced

By that token Frank Booth's extended apartment attack on Dorothy Valens is forced as well. This is a Lynch trademark and doesn't feel out of the norm for me as a viewer.

Yeah, I agree with you Jay Vee. That's his shtick

It's horrible to watch that's for sure.

Did Johnny's nightmare bear continue to speak through that entire scene?

But it does reinforce how pathetic Richard is - he's not so much a bad ass as a real piss-ant who takes advantage of those who can't defend themselves.

Yeah the bear continued to speak, which makes the scene way more intense

In re the violence, it is disturbing and has always left Lynch open to fair criticism, particularly his portrayals of violence against women. I think the defense of it is that his violence is shocking the way real violence in the world is shocking. It disrupts all the surfaces of social contracts and norms and reveals rawer instincts below. (Lynch of course very into revealing things that lurk below.) So I think there's more to its persistence in his work than exploitation, it's one of the facets of nature -- human and otherwise -- that he is drawn to.

Both

1) the shot of Richard Horne reflected in the glass door, so his face is embedded in Miriam's chest; and
2) "you have an enemy IN Douglas Jones"

seem references to Bob lodged in (and dug out of?) BadCoop's chest or just more generally the fact that one being can inhabit another

I wouldn't say it wasn't artistically unjustifiable, given the dichotomy/polarities of decency and evil he's setting up but the prolonged assault with the mentally disabled adult she cares for watching and afraid...I think we can understand why some viewers even familiar w and fans of Lynch's aesthetics would be hopeful not to see something like that again.

yeah tipsy OTM

and again, it's normal to like a director like Lynch and also find fault or dislike some of his storytelling (and even hold out hope his approach changes)

meeting complaints with "well it's David Lynch, what'd you expect?" is kind of useless when someone does expect the violence but holds out hope it's approached differently

it's not by any means a deal breaker for me and there are a million things in his work that appeal versus the handful I wish were different but not to the extent I walk away

It felt a bit more like this was about violence against women, rather than being exploitative (i do think the criticisms he faces on that front are generally justified)

i paused and tried to see who bad cooper was talking to by the big glass box in the photo, but i couldn't tell who it was. it looked like a bald (?) guy with glasses (?) in a trenchcoat (?) in the foreground and someone else behind him

― na (NA), Monday, July 17, 2017 3:13 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/wpid-article-1317296589811-0e24b9d000000578-503975_636x338.jpg

I wasn't particularly shocked or repulsed by it. I was, however, pretty repulsed and disappointed in the hit and run on the child a few episodes ago.

I was more shocked when he called her a cunt as le left.

I have some half-formed thought in my head about the intensity of that scene feeling more oppressive than it might've because Johnny was essentially a proxy for the viewer, watching it all unfold and incapable of doing anything to prevent it.

I had the same thought, Old Lunch. It kind of makes it even worse that I just kept willing Johnny to somehow break free and assault Richard -- really, it should have been about protecting his mom, not being violent to Richard in return

making viewers want something horrible and violent to happen to this horrible fictional man is a conscious thing

Imagine if that scene were actually filmed with the camera on its side, as one unbroken shot from his perspective. Like that horrific scene from Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. Eeesh.

xpost way upthread to mh -- Must be a generatiional thing (I'm in my late '40s) but I kind of let creative folks I deeply admire "do their thing", even if I am disappointed by approaches they may eventually take in their art, and never hope they will change those approaches in order to meet my needs. That would be worse in my eyes.

I think the man sitting opposite bad Cooper is wearing a lab coat rather than a trench coat.

Richard Horne's face seems kind of distorted and weird, like a Picasso face -- did they somehow distort or prosthetize him or is that just what the actor actually looks like?

interesting point from an online commenter"

"Big takeaway: Chad pocketed the letter from Miriam Hodges, yet Miriam's last name is actually Sullivan as seen in the credits. So he got the wrong letter and the real one will still make it to the TPSD."

Yeah, i wonder how Richard expects to flee with such a face? Surely he'd be identified in no time.

xxp "creative folks" change their approaches all the time, during their lives, not just responding to critical reviews but the changing social climate, their own maturity, and their own experiences

I don't want my needs met. I just think certain changes would be nice. Also, I'm not one to hold Lynch to this, and I'm personally relatively fine with the level of violence. I'm articulating why criticizing reviewers for having their opinions is a slippery slope

xpost I have a feeling Lynch just picked some weird looking folks for this. Amanda Seyfried's bf (can't remember the character name) is one inbred, devilish looking mf'er.

xpost way upthread to mh -- Must be a generatiional thing (I'm in my late '40s) but I kind of let creative folks I deeply admire "do their thing", even if I am disappointed by approaches they may eventually take in their art, and never hope they will change those approaches in order to meet my needs. That would be worse in my eyes.

― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, July 17, 2017 2:10 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can agree with that. I may enjoy the work of an artist who always gives me exactly what I want and whose work always mirrors my own view of the world but they aren't going to be an artist that I engage with particularly deeply.

Can't decide if I like the official Twin Peaks twitter account (which is pretty deep spoiler-y) or not. Their latest tweet spells out a lot that most of us probably missed.

xposts

Suspect description: looks evil

I mean, David Lynch is a grown human being and not a fucking bonsai tree, criticism isn't personally shaping him, it's feedback that he can take how he likes! If he repeatedly gets the same criticism and it rolls off him, then he's intentional

this whole "can't hurt the artist's process" thing is insulting to both artists and viewers

xxpost do tell! (heading to Twitter)

xxp Albert, which tweet? I'm scrolling through and it doesn't seem to spoilery (unless you missed the pointed Log Lady comment)

I find some of Lynch's monsters more sophisticated and chilling in their conception than others, and therefore even when their actions are extremely disturbing I feel like I'm not just watching cheap pulp exploitation. Richard and Ike the Spike to me are more in line with the dumb brute, gross-out psychos like the hit men in Wild at Heart, and not necessarily what some people who prefer Twin Peaks to Lynch's other work had been waiting for.

"Except for maybe "The Straight Story"."

so glad he cut the dog raping scene from that movie

Richard Horne actually has the nose that classical statues have where there is no break, or indentation between the slope of the forehead and the slope of the nose. This was the aesthetic ideal in Ancient Greece but it looks weird when you see it in the flesh.

http://www.stickpng.com/assets/thumbs/585693984f6ae202fedf2724.png

wow you're totally right

i feel like somehow he looks the way vamps on buffy look except no fangs

Apparently he was hand picked for the role after starring in a film by Jennifer Lynch
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1989475/

couldn't find anything spoilery in the twin peaks twitter, unless you haven't watched the latest episode.

x-posts

Leonine, in a bad way. (I'm sure I've seen it in a good way...)

herman cain where is he now? posting articles with out-of-context stills of twin peaks pic.twitter.com/93rRRDde51

— POST MAN (@MatthewPWells) July 17, 2017

maybe they deleted it? let me go find it...

Or is this not the official TP twitter?

Two Miriams?

Via https://t.co/qe4ETRHKGE #TwinPeaks pic.twitter.com/AfpwW05QWE

— Twin Peaks ✉️ (@ThatsOurWaldo) July 17, 2017

It's followed by Mark Frost but not David Lynch...

no, that's 'welcome to twin peaks' twitter. they're a fan website. but an astute one.

from their website:

WELCOME TO TWIN PEAKS IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH RANCHO ROSA, SHOWTIME, OR TWIN PEAKS PRODUCTIONS.

fwiw (not fwim) the only "official" one is the showtime-affiliated one at https://twitter.com/sho_twinpeaks

unless you count mark frost and david lynch at

https://twitter.com/mfrost11
and
https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH

also it's called @ThatsOurWaldo