Who exactly are their better alternatives?
Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Keith Ellison.
What better vision do they have beyond "winning" "bigly"?
Single payer universal healthcare and a reinvigorated labor movement.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 17:52 (six years ago) link
They should add Matt's "this podcast doesn't count as 'doing politics'" line to the start of every episode as a disclaimer to maybe forestall some of the thinkpiece deluge
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
nothing leftists do counts as 'doing politics'
― sleepingbag, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
what?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link
carpet_kaiser reminds me of all the 'mainstream' Dems who respond to criticism of Clintons/Obama by asking for a detailed agenda for when I am president
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link
They're clearly carpetbaggers who jumped on the tweeting, podcasting and being socialists $$$ train.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
idg the line that chapo isn't politics. i mean yeah it's not organizing nor electioneering nor thinktanking (or maybe...) but it's not not politics.
― goole, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:03 (six years ago) link
yeah, it's communications.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:04 (six years ago) link
i think their point is that sitting there listening doesn't count as doing something
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:07 (six years ago) link
someone should tell them they're like the cnn classic crossfire but without dissenting opinions :)
― mh, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link
Yeah, this doesn't even come close to what I believe.
― carpet_kaiser, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link
chu went from Good to Bad for tragic unselfawareness, repeated tryhard assertions about homosexuality, and zealous defense of hillary clinton. i'd seen the tweets from his poor ex wife before but i try not to over-interpret people's private lives. calling him a sociopath is a bit much; people throw that around too much imo.
― goole, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:10 (six years ago) link
Reminded how Jon Stewart also always felt compelled to jump back to "Hey look I'm just a comedian".
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
This comes dangerously close to the late '00s Jon Stewart "I'm just a comedian," though - it needs to be clarified that podcasts and posting is not the end of politicking. Then they're no better than the libs who think resistance is buying from Starbucks because the CEO was going to be in Hillary's cabinet.
Which, to be fair, Matt at least has been heavily involved with his local DSA.
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link
honestly the worst casualty of the left-liberal war has been amanda marcotte, who's become shockingly dishonest and disningenuous
― goole, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
imo Chu went bad from being extremely online to the extent it was his job, his hobby, and his only personal relationship (to the detriment of his marriage)
he had some amazingly bad takes, but if you looked at his twitter feed, he was coming up with a take on _every news item_ to the extent he tweets or retweets nearly constantly twenty hours per day. it's not the incredibly bad takes that are notable to me, it's the fact he churns out four or five takes per hour -- most are just mundane or irrelevant
― mh, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
marcotte is kind of the opposite, one incredibly hot take per column
― mh, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:14 (six years ago) link
xxxp yeah they're all involved with DSA organizing and marching
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:14 (six years ago) link
yeah mh i think that's right. twitter is bad for the ol' brain-o
― goole, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
that extremely lucrative career choice, professional socialist
― ||||||||, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:18 (six years ago) link
I was much happier when I thought that Chapo Trap House was the name of some wacky new genre of music.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
They're clearly carpetbaggers who jumped on the tweeting, podcasting and being socialists $$$ train.― President Keyes, Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:01 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― President Keyes, Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:01 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Clearly. https://graphtreon.com/creator/chapotraphouse
― carpet_kaiser, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
jeet piece is v silly
you can’t really build a coalition of egalitarian politics by browbeating a key segment of that coalition.
the like 20 media idiots and failed technocrats being browbeaten on this comedy podcast are not a key segment of the democratic coalition nor do they have a record of delivering for anyone who is, and their continual hiding behind the skirts of the millions of nonwhites they allegedly represent yet could not actually inspire to vote for their candidate is getting pretty gross-- as is the notion, implicit in alt-center claims to represent whole classes the left does not, that only witebois want to go to the doctor, or to work
in style it is much closer to the vituperative, insulting, shock-jock tactics used not just by Twitter users with Pepe the Frog avatars, but Trump himself ... the Dirtbag Left has no use for civility, and instead wants to counter the alt-right’s mudslinging in kind. Their slogan could be, “When they go low, we go into the gutter.”
to any reasonable adults who may be slumming itt: next time you've decided to pass an afternoon pretending not to know what "neoliberal" means and you've already done the thing where your interlocutor described the history of the democratic party post-1972 but you were stricken briefly deaf, consider that a short definition might be "person who thinks calling ross douthat a dweeb is worse than fascism"
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
Wasn't the carpet kaiser a trumpist a few days back? Still wondering who it is. And no, it's not me.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
Jeet Heer is right that the Democratic party, as a coalition party, is fundamentally different than GOP. You can say as much as you want that it's only 20 centrists that should be brought to heel, but it's not just 20 centrists that is going to wreck Bernie Sanders' chances once again in the south in 2020. And you can't win them over with dominance politics.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
And you can't win them over with dominance politics.
you can win them over with simple full-throated support of single payer healthcare
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
Is there any evidence of that. At all?
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:49 (six years ago) link
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/23/public-support-for-single-payer-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
and yet that never translates into votes, because voters don't vote based on policy
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
or, at least, a majority of voters don't
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:52 (six years ago) link
also re: use of full-throated - Phrases I Never Want to Hear Uttered by Talking Heads/Press/Politicians Ever Again
noted. i think i used it a dozen times itt this morning. will retire...
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
BOOM!
how many opportunities have voters had to vote for single payer
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
shakey is otm. obamacare was "policy". "vote for me, then fill out a form and never pay to see the doctor again" is the sort of thing people base their votes on.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
my arizona trumpist uncle (central casting) was on the phone to my dad the other day telling him we needed single payer. the plural of anecdote is... several million anecdotes
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
Kinda a catch-22 here - people won't vote based on policy so leftist single-payer supporting podcasts can't say that will drive votes, but being brash meanies instead of focusing on policy...
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
anyway if the 2020 leftist candidate wants to do better in the south than bernie did they could always... campaign there, or at least not try to excuse their not campaigning there by implying they're all republicans down there anyway. maybe they'd learn lessons they could later apply to doing better in the midwest than hillary.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
I thought this was pretty good. And the question is how Sanders, or anyone from the left-left win, can lure black women away from Terry McAuliffe and Kamala Harris.
http://www.theroot.com/bernie-sanders-black-women-problem-1796995081
Sanders and his supporters assumed that black voters would be easily drawn to his economic-justice policies. On paper, they were pretty impressive and should have had black women on the fence. Though, when challenged on how his policies would specifically help black people in prime-time moments, he faltered. Badly.
During a campaign stop at an economic forum in Minneapolis in February of 2016, a black American woman confronted Sanders on his inability to address anti-blackness and economics. The question focused on a garbage incinerator in the city causing health problems for local residents. Felicia Perry said that her son has asthma and the incinerator was making him sick.
Given that black children are twice as likely to suffer from asthma, it made perfect sense for her to ask the “political revolutionary” what his plans were to address environmental racism. In her question, she also took on what she felt was his refusal to address anti-blackness head on:
My black son. I know you’re scared to say black, I know you’re scared to say reparations. But it seems like every time we try to talk about black people and us getting something for the systematic reparations and the exploitation of our people, we have to include every other person of color. ... Can you please talk about specifically black people and reparations?
That was a perfect opportunity to display empathy for the specific plight of black mothers who have to raise children in unsafe areas plagued by environmental racism. But, in typical Sanders fashion, he got defensive and refused to take on her challenge that he lacks a racial analysis:
What I just indicated in my view is that when you have ... you and I may have disagreements because it’s not just black, it is Latino; there are areas of America, in poor rural areas, where it’s white.
That exchange pretty much convinced me that Sanders wasn’t ready for prime time. If you can’t tell a black woman raising a black kid with asthma how your policies will combat environmental racism, you can’t claim to be a political revolutionary.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:21 (six years ago) link
The entire Chapo ""phenomenon"" reminds me of Hipster Runoff or Pitchfork Reviews Reviews, when someone made an entertaining comedy diversion that appealed to people who were passionate about a small insular subject (indie rock media, the pro wrestling of politics media) and are invested in the online conversation around it.
The problems, of course, came when media people confuse that for something in reality or a movement or some kind of zeitgeist thing and tried to prescribe "meaning" and "importance" to it. Like all these hand-wringing things about "they make $70k a month" or whatever is ridiculous because like Pewdiepie makes like $15 million a year and ILX isn't full of articles about "what does the era of screaming vloggers mean for [X]."
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:22 (six years ago) link
yeah, basically imo chapo does not merit thinkpieces
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
nobody on ilx wants to be pewdiepie, or is positive they could be
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link
objects in the digital mirror may be further away/smaller than they appear
― ||||||||, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
must go slower
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
I don't even know where that $70k puts Chapo in the spectrum of podcasts - surely that means Marc Maron and Joe Rogan are banking multiples of that, right?
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
maron and rogan sell adverts rather than receiving $5 per subscriber, so despite them being much more popular than chapo, i don't know how the income would compare
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
The difference between this and Hipster Runoff is that Chapo are involved in politics whether they say they are or not. And so that puts a higher burden of scrutiny on them than video game bloggers or people goofing on marketing hell. And since they're leading their own little movement of people, in politics, then yeah, why the hell wouldn't people examine them as they become more popular?
― carpet_kaiser, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
anecdotal but i went to some DSA meetings and first one after election in particular, most of the new people cited chapo. and most of those folk were pretty young, probably under 25
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:42 (six years ago) link
xpost I don't know--why aren't there a bunch of think pieces about TYT? They have a bigger audience than Chapo, probably rake in more money, share a love for Bernie and domination politics and do actual political organizing. But they're kind of dumb and not in Brooklyn so...
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:43 (six years ago) link
I've read plenty of shit on TYT, it's out there
― carpet_kaiser, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 19:45 (six years ago) link