the alt-right

Antifa stunts will just draw more of them out and strengthen them. They thrive on hatred.

a minority of the country whose population still is in the millions, sure

they don't thrive on hatred, they thrive on any incident they can spin into proving the other side is just as bad, if not worse. they also thrive on "not being resisted"

Protest them nonviolently in overwhelming numbers. Also focus not on them but on defeating Republicans and pushing Demorats left.

i don't remember who it was back in January (oh, more innocent times) that said alt-right/nazi groups might fear organizing more if they felt like they might get clocked in the face, and while I am generally a pacifist there is some truth to that.

neo-nazi groups are not going to starve for members regardless of what antifa do or don't do.

xpost sure, then alt-righters when frustrated that nobody is taking their bait then run down one of the protesters with a car and say an antifa did it

Antifa stunts will just draw more of them out and strengthen them. They thrive on hatred.

Oh, bullshit. We've had Klan rallies and Neo-Nazi rallies for a century - they don't need counter-protesters to be themselves.

I disagree. I think they want to brawl in the streets because they are barbarians. The left wants something else -- a better world.

They want to kill black people.

realize I'm incapable of thinking of this rationally atm but it's just depressing that after 8 years of moderately progressive gains, we're having to deal w/ the predictable consequences when those who feel "slighted" by those gains inexplicably get the biggest Breitbart puppet in modern history in the White House as their mascot.

xpost horseshoe otm

recent White supremacist/separatist groups have become non-violent, not because they necessarily have evolved, but because they know recruiting becomes easier as it's easier to get on-the-fence racists who have resisted due to the violence/terrorist actions of the movement's past.

that doesn't mean if law enforcement was to regress 50-60 years and turn a blind eye to some of their activities that they wouldn't revert to past barbarities. their move away from violence has little to do w/ their innate desires

something i've never understood is how these assholes rationalize that the daughter of their god emperor is jewish

― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

contradictions/cognitive dissonance isn't a thing for Trumpers. they start with conclusions and work backwards to make everything else fit, and the puzzle pieces that don't fit just get left out.

The avowed white nationalists probably see Trump more as a useful tool to advance their agenda than an actual guru or whatever too.

I think Bannon said that once. Trump was a "blunt instrument"

yeah he's not a 'leader', but a guy that symbolizes "hey, it's ok for us to be ourselves again now"

If they attack you or whatever fight back but no one should seek out a fight with degenerates.

― Treeship

oh god, here i am being tone police again, but look, if we're going to use dehumanizing rhetoric can we at least come up with our own dehumanizing rhetoric and not borrow it from the nazis?

What would you call them?

I wasn't using that term in a literal sense obviously. There is nothing "wrong" with them except their hearts and minds are filled with poison.

And they are beneath contempt and tender minded music nerds shouldn't be seeking out fights with them.

It just seems weird to me that the use of violence is the question of the hour. I'll sign out now.

The use of violence is the question of the next four to eight years. And your answer is wrong.

i don't remember who it was back in January (oh, more innocent times) that said alt-right/nazi groups might fear organizing more if they felt like they might get clocked in the face, and while I am generally a pacifist there is some truth to that.

neo-nazi groups are not going to starve for members regardless of what antifa do or don't do.

seems obvious to me that any violence (other than pure self-defense) from "the Left" weakens "our" position. it's frustrating to give those who are all too eager to play the "many sides" card (which is major BS of course) any fodder.

obv if white supremacists escalate and become more and more organized and violent, something needs to be done. by the State. if the State is unwilling or fails to quash, then...

^^^^

Fired

UPDATE: Cole White, the first person I exposed, no longer has a job 💁‍♂️ #GoodNightColeWhite #ExposeTheAltRight #Charlottesville pic.twitter.com/sqxSXboKw6

— Yes, You're Racist (@YesYoureRacist) August 13, 2017

State failed to stop vehicular murder yesterday fyi

Xp

It can't possibly be expected to stop everything. That doesn't mean a good response is to immediately resort to vigilante justice.

Just pointing it out for the record. White supremacist violence is on the rise and the federal govt is actively ignoring it.

Then I will point out that vehicular murderer will be arraigned by the State Monday.

As he should be

not vigilante justice

just natural social repercussions of being a shit head

they'll live

seeing speculation from my local Cville friends (based on the footage) that the helicopter pilot was shot

I've been having an occasional look at r/thedonald (downvoteable link here) and they are really not handling the current situation well. Not that they have a coherent angle at any point (the last week has been anti-google memes and self-congratulatory back-patting about the "reclaiming" of the Trump chicken cartoon, something which absolutely nobody outside their bubble cares about) but they can't even sing from the same songsheet today. There are defenses of Trump's tweets, allegations that the whole thing was a false-flag maneuver, calling MSM hypocritical for whatever whataboutery they can think of, and a few scattered attempts to distance themselves from the far-right - obviously the last one way to go here, but it's being hampered somewhat by the fact that many of them are actually the far-right. Sure they will have calmed down and gone back to the usual state of things later in the week, but it's interesting to get a glimpse of what they'll look like when their inevitable downfall happens.

the behavior of the white fascists uses victimhood as a frame, but the underlying attitude is that they're speaking for a quiet majority. that's why they persist even when the majority of these events have more counter-protestors than white nationalists. to their minds, they think they see overwhelming support everywhere in the complacency of the majority, and counter-protests are the handful of people they can brush off. the Trump fan reddits of the world are that complacent majority, and it sounds like they're incredibly bad at coming to terms

mfktz, obnoxious trolls on other sites i read, i'm more than half-convinced are paid in rubles to shit-post and hijack discussions, have been eerily quiet this weekend

underlying attitude is that they're speaking for a quiet majority.

well tbf 58% of white voters and 81% of evangelicals are ceratinly sympathetic

just got this targeted ad on facebook

http://i.imgur.com/dOmN8zS.png

Early last year Farrakhan said something like “Trump is peeling back the onion of white civility”

this kind of will towards violence from typically pacifist leftists would have been easily placated with someone like the homie Barack in office making all the right noises and singing the right songs

instead you get dog whistle “many sides” bullshit from the most powerful man in the country and suddenly belief in an inexorable social progress doesn’t quite feel equal to an emboldened far right

I mean it wouldn’t occur to me that white nationalism is any less abhorrent and deleterious if somebody hadn’t driven a challenger through a crowd. by that same token I think the vast majority of people are fully aware of which side they fall on before they read the news.

the definitive lightning rod in American political and social life has always been race. Ain’t nobody out here waiting to hear who was more violent before forming an opinion

xp Does it happen to have a flag painted on the roof?

so . . . guess where trump winery is!

http://www.trumpwinery.com/contact/

surely this is a coincidence, right? right?

"seems obvious to me that any violence (other than pure self-defense) from "the Left" weakens "our" position."

how can you weaken your position against racist nazis? being able to legally punch a nazi should be in the constitution.

going high has gone so well in the battle against fascism/white supremacy

like I remember that one KKK gathering where all of the counterprotesters shouted "YOU SAY HORRIBLE THINGS, BUT WE DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO SAY THEM!" and whole Nazis realized hateful incitement was bad and abandoned their hoods and held hands with the protesters.

Not using violence, while absorbing violence, isn't about converting the people who are doing you violence, but about turning bystanders in your favor and against those who are doing you violence. This should not be hard to grasp. The difficulty comes when the vast majority of the bystanders have only a heavily-mediated experience those events.

yes but as your last sentence correctly states, the "bystanders" tend to hold the protesters to a higher standard than the people they're protesting

the shooting against Scalise turned into a narrative of "see, it's leftist encouragement of violence that led to this" even as those on the left immediately condemned the shooting, whereas yesterday's act of violence gets called an "accident" for hours on a major tv network even after others had correctly identified what it *really* was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vsXyOTelJo

The creator of Godwin's Law says it all

By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.

— Mike Godwin (@sfmnemonic) August 14, 2017

I wound up on the news, and I look ridiculous

http://wnep.com/2017/08/13/peace-rally-in-lewisburg-in-response-to-violence-in-virginia/

you totally didn't look ridiculous and you were totally OTM.