the alt-right

If only the police - whose large section sympathise with these Nazis and kill black people - would only stop these Nazis.

Just like your boy Stalin

haha

fire em and hire more black police

not gonna watch the vice thing. i've seen photos. i've seen videos. i dont want to support yet another group who has made a career profiting off the imagery of violent extremism.

imo boycott the nazi rallies. nobody shows up but news reporters. let them duke it out.

just been thinking of all the 100k+ anti-war demonstrations the media completely slept on during the Iraq war. they choose to cover things for certain reasons, mostly to stoke fear. people have accepted the lie that there isn't an anti-war left. now 350 assholes are proof that half the country wants to kill us.

shut the fuck up

my current "friends of friends" count is one dead, two injured by Nazis

"friends of friends of friends" is one dead, many injured by Nazis

just shut up

fire em and hire more black police

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's easier said than done. xps

They did not have a right to threaten

I've asked this rhetorically a few times now, and maybe one of you has the constitutional law backing to help me out, but how is an armed, angry mob whose stated goals and extensive history are violent and intimidating, not innately a public safety threat? Because the right to hate speech is one thing, but an actually seditious and dangerous hate group, with a stated platform of death and destruction or at least close associations with the same, why is that not as dangerous as someone walking down the street juggling chainsaws, let alone shouting fire in a crowded theatre?

Like, if they were marching through Virginia shouting "Jews should be shot," is that covered by the 1st amendment? Because that's what you stand for if you fly a Nazi flag.

I believe it would be covered, you have to single out a person and call to action.

good overview here:

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/16/16153248/free-speech-nazi-first-amendment-democracy-hate-speech

i thought the law was that anyone can assemble and say anything so long as it isn't directly threatening to a person. admittedly using charged symbols is threatening but "X should be shot" is different than "we will shoot X".

I'll have to spend some time with that Vox article. I just don't understand how innately violent groups with a history of violence, armed, can show up and inevitably provoke violence. If it happens everywhere they go, again and again, eventually don't you have to stop permitting it? Or force people to stand in one cordoned off place and shout from there?

allowed: "all people with long hair should die"

not allowed: "let's kill that guy with the long hair, the one over there"

Shakey OTM. the insane & racist double standard of the cops not being aggressive & shooting rubber bullets at the neo-Nazis was disgusting. if 100s of black people marched ANYWHERE with torches, they would be shot, gassed, assaulted, etc. the police are responsible for allowing this to get out of hand. the KKK marched in Skokie, IL and they still have a right to march today.

Perfect illustration of this here in Baltimore 2 years ago: in Sandtown-Winchester, near where Freddie Gray was arrested, protestors (majority black) breaking curfew were gassed, beaten, and arrested. on the same night in Hampden, a candle-light vigil was allowed to continue half an hour past curfew, with the cops very politely asking the mostly white residents to go home. just abhorrent and plain as day.

(& just to clarify, i'm not advocating ott violence against any protestors like what we saw here in Baltimore and in Ferguson, but those cops in Charlottesville were hands off in a way that was sickeningly familiar).

I just don't understand how innately violent groups with a history of violence, armed, can show up and inevitably provoke violence

Except it's not always "inevitable." There was no violence in Skokie in '78 (?).

they def fucked up by allowing that car in. was the road not closed off?

xp Skokie march was proposed in '77 but happened in '78, yeah. no violence

The argument I have heard made, which is half-legit, is that a shit ton of the protestors were open carrying, and often better armed than the police. The defense made by the police is, hey, no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it. And yet, that does not make this a success. If they felt too threatened to do their job, they should have called in the national guard. But then, if the national guard was called in and had to use force against an armed mob, I'm sure there would be many more dead or injured.

Guns, really, are what fucks up this free speech situation. The asshole gun right has done a sneaky job connecting the first and second amendments, allowing aggressive groups with first amendment rights to also claim to be defensive groups carrying guns not to intimidate but as self defense. It seems pretty circular and in some ways over-protects, constitutionally, people who are innately dangerous. Then again, the guy who hurt the most people used a car.

was the road not closed off?

there are a lot of questions around that and I haven't seen any good answers yet

no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it

it really is. two days of armed rioting, not a single shot fired. i saw lots of people wearing helmets, bringing bats, clubs, mace, etc. people had come to cause some shit.

The reason people (including me) are pissed at the ACLU in this instance is not because the march happened, but because the ACLU sued to allow it to happen where it happened, and not at some more controllable park the city wanted it to happen at.

OK, so this was in the Atlantic a couple of days ago:

For decades, plans by groups like the Klan and neo-Nazis to march have been the subject of pitched battles, as towns try to bar them from coming, often to be rebuked by courts. In 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Nazis could march in Skokie, Illinois, saying that flying the swastika did not constitute fighting words. Arrests at Klan-related rallies—both of Klansmen and of their critics—are not uncommon. But in recent decades, bloodshed like what occurred in Charlottesville is rarer. (Of course, Klan members and other extremists have committed incredible acts of violence, including countless lynchings of black people, away from their marches.)

Key item is the notion of "fighting words." The article also claims that bloodshed is "rarer" than arrests at these rallies, but cites nothing.

there's going to be a mass shooting at a protest of some kind eventually and it's going to be extremely grim and horrific

Hi DJP, just want to tell you how much I appreciate your presence on ILX, and also your Spotify post-election mixtape has been helping me get through these last few days, especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?" so thanks for that, too.

<3

I appreciate all of you guys, tbh, at least to some degree. This is the worst I've felt on a daily basis since the days after the election.

"at least to some degree" was not meant to be qualifying, btw, just that I know it would ultimately be healthier for me to just stay off the screen for a while, period.

btw if anyone wants to see the playlist horseshoe is talking about:

https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/3kVB1Spf8xuXgfHSqcv4vr

I did a very similar one for Inauguration Day:

https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/0UzUIhTNXuKCma2qML5R7U

The reason people (including me) are pissed at the ACLU in this instance is not because the march happened, but because the ACLU sued to allow it to happen where it happened, and not at some more controllable park the city wanted it to happen at.

very very otm, my sentiments exactly

I don't know enough law to have an opinion on that "controllable" stuff, but don't we wail when protestors at the GOP convention, for example, are confined to yelling in a pen 3 blocks away?

especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?"

such a monster, this track

xp fair point but this was another public park afaik

there's going to be a mass shooting at a protest of some kind eventually and it's going to be extremely grim and horrific

this seems inevitable and tbf I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already. ditto for sporting events.

Well, maybe congressional sporting events.

The guy who shot five police in Dallas did so at the end of a protest.

targeted police killings kind of different imo

(or, at least, I don't think that's what global tetra was thinking of)

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/equality-justice-and-first-amendment

oh great

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHYB0RDVoAAlFyN.jpg:large

It's all we'll and good that no shots were fired over the weekend, but if these militias did open fire, what the heck would the cops have done being so out gunned?

They would have rolled in their armored personnel carriers. The idea that "the police are outgunned" is a bunch of bullshit. Go read some articles about the militarization of US police departments. The shit police departments have spent their money on this century is fucking terrifying.

Nazis coming to town? Here's a positive and creative response. #Resist pic.twitter.com/gcrHagYtJW

— Cleve Jones (@CleveJones1) August 16, 2017

this imgur gallery and its popularity (front page, 2,874 upvotes, only 274 downs) is telling. yes, imgur/reddit are populated by a bunch of severe assholes, but i think a lot more people in the U.S. think about the world in this way than we'd like to admit

http://imgur.com/gallery/GLVXs

Very interesting, I just learned that apparently there is a relatively well known Civil War monument somewhere in Chicago, but it's dedicated to confederates who died in a POW camp here, and was ordered erected in the late 1800s by Pres. Cleveland in an effort to heal divisions. I saw it called "the largest mass grave in the Western Hemisphere." (4000 dead). It's in a private cemetery with some famous neighbors:

Oak Woods Cemetery is the final resting place for Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor; Jesse Owens, the runner who upstaged Adolf Hitler and Nazis by winning four gold medals at the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin; and civil rights leader Ida B. Wells, among many others.

juggalos are our comrades now, sorry

commie juggalo internet is cooler than anything ive ever done ever pic.twitter.com/enDuSTXUzN

— a (@AeTBench) November 30, 2016

"I'm prepared for civil war, civil unrest, EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) attack from North Korea, Russia, invasion from a foreign government, my own government turning its guns against the people in an effort to disarm," says Hill, a 42-year-old paralegal who prefers the moniker "General Bloodagent" when leading the group he founded in 2008.

His is one of an estimated 165 armed anti-government militias currently operating in the United States. Their exact goals vary, but they are largely united by a distrust of government, a strong belief in individual liberties such as the right to bear arms, and, since last year's presidential campaign, an affinity with Donald Trump.

https://repubhub.icopyright.net/freePost.act?tag=3.14122?icx_id=20170817.doc-rm4pg