I just don't understand how innately violent groups with a history of violence, armed, can show up and inevitably provoke violence
Except it's not always "inevitable." There was no violence in Skokie in '78 (?).
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
they def fucked up by allowing that car in. was the road not closed off?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
xp Skokie march was proposed in '77 but happened in '78, yeah. no violence
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
The argument I have heard made, which is half-legit, is that a shit ton of the protestors were open carrying, and often better armed than the police. The defense made by the police is, hey, no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it. And yet, that does not make this a success. If they felt too threatened to do their job, they should have called in the national guard. But then, if the national guard was called in and had to use force against an armed mob, I'm sure there would be many more dead or injured.
Guns, really, are what fucks up this free speech situation. The asshole gun right has done a sneaky job connecting the first and second amendments, allowing aggressive groups with first amendment rights to also claim to be defensive groups carrying guns not to intimidate but as self defense. It seems pretty circular and in some ways over-protects, constitutionally, people who are innately dangerous. Then again, the guy who hurt the most people used a car.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
was the road not closed off?
there are a lot of questions around that and I haven't seen any good answers yet
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it
it really is. two days of armed rioting, not a single shot fired. i saw lots of people wearing helmets, bringing bats, clubs, mace, etc. people had come to cause some shit.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:15 (six years ago) link
The reason people (including me) are pissed at the ACLU in this instance is not because the march happened, but because the ACLU sued to allow it to happen where it happened, and not at some more controllable park the city wanted it to happen at.
OK, so this was in the Atlantic a couple of days ago:
For decades, plans by groups like the Klan and neo-Nazis to march have been the subject of pitched battles, as towns try to bar them from coming, often to be rebuked by courts. In 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Nazis could march in Skokie, Illinois, saying that flying the swastika did not constitute fighting words. Arrests at Klan-related rallies—both of Klansmen and of their critics—are not uncommon. But in recent decades, bloodshed like what occurred in Charlottesville is rarer. (Of course, Klan members and other extremists have committed incredible acts of violence, including countless lynchings of black people, away from their marches.)
Key item is the notion of "fighting words." The article also claims that bloodshed is "rarer" than arrests at these rallies, but cites nothing.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
there's going to be a mass shooting at a protest of some kind eventually and it's going to be extremely grim and horrific
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
Hi DJP, just want to tell you how much I appreciate your presence on ILX, and also your Spotify post-election mixtape has been helping me get through these last few days, especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?" so thanks for that, too.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
<3
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
I appreciate all of you guys, tbh, at least to some degree. This is the worst I've felt on a daily basis since the days after the election.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
"at least to some degree" was not meant to be qualifying, btw, just that I know it would ultimately be healthier for me to just stay off the screen for a while, period.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:21 (six years ago) link
btw if anyone wants to see the playlist horseshoe is talking about:
https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/3kVB1Spf8xuXgfHSqcv4vr
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
I did a very similar one for Inauguration Day:
https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/0UzUIhTNXuKCma2qML5R7U
very very otm, my sentiments exactly
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:24 (six years ago) link
I don't know enough law to have an opinion on that "controllable" stuff, but don't we wail when protestors at the GOP convention, for example, are confined to yelling in a pen 3 blocks away?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:27 (six years ago) link
especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?"
such a monster, this track
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
xp fair point but this was another public park afaik
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
this seems inevitable and tbf I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already. ditto for sporting events.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:35 (six years ago) link
Well, maybe congressional sporting events.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:38 (six years ago) link
The guy who shot five police in Dallas did so at the end of a protest.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:45 (six years ago) link
targeted police killings kind of different imo
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
(or, at least, I don't think that's what global tetra was thinking of)
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/equality-justice-and-first-amendment
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 22:05 (six years ago) link
oh great
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHYB0RDVoAAlFyN.jpg:large
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 22:51 (six years ago) link
It's all we'll and good that no shots were fired over the weekend, but if these militias did open fire, what the heck would the cops have done being so out gunned?
― Moodles, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
They would have rolled in their armored personnel carriers. The idea that "the police are outgunned" is a bunch of bullshit. Go read some articles about the militarization of US police departments. The shit police departments have spent their money on this century is fucking terrifying.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 17 August 2017 00:14 (six years ago) link
Nazis coming to town? Here's a positive and creative response. #Resist pic.twitter.com/gcrHagYtJW— Cleve Jones (@CleveJones1) August 16, 2017
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 17 August 2017 00:20 (six years ago) link
this imgur gallery and its popularity (front page, 2,874 upvotes, only 274 downs) is telling. yes, imgur/reddit are populated by a bunch of severe assholes, but i think a lot more people in the U.S. think about the world in this way than we'd like to admit
http://imgur.com/gallery/GLVXs
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 17 August 2017 05:22 (six years ago) link
Very interesting, I just learned that apparently there is a relatively well known Civil War monument somewhere in Chicago, but it's dedicated to confederates who died in a POW camp here, and was ordered erected in the late 1800s by Pres. Cleveland in an effort to heal divisions. I saw it called "the largest mass grave in the Western Hemisphere." (4000 dead). It's in a private cemetery with some famous neighbors:
Oak Woods Cemetery is the final resting place for Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor; Jesse Owens, the runner who upstaged Adolf Hitler and Nazis by winning four gold medals at the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin; and civil rights leader Ida B. Wells, among many others.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 August 2017 11:47 (six years ago) link
juggalos are our comrades now, sorry
commie juggalo internet is cooler than anything ive ever done ever pic.twitter.com/enDuSTXUzN— a (@AeTBench) November 30, 2016
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:06 (six years ago) link
"I'm prepared for civil war, civil unrest, EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) attack from North Korea, Russia, invasion from a foreign government, my own government turning its guns against the people in an effort to disarm," says Hill, a 42-year-old paralegal who prefers the moniker "General Bloodagent" when leading the group he founded in 2008.
His is one of an estimated 165 armed anti-government militias currently operating in the United States. Their exact goals vary, but they are largely united by a distrust of government, a strong belief in individual liberties such as the right to bear arms, and, since last year's presidential campaign, an affinity with Donald Trump.
https://repubhub.icopyright.net/freePost.act?tag=3.14122?icx_id=20170817.doc-rm4pg
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:38 (six years ago) link
Still weird to me that the casino huckster guy captured the imaginations of all these kinds of people.
― Treeship, Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:48 (six years ago) link
JFC @ General Bloodanus
― Say, I Heard You Had a Quarrel With Your Best Girl (Old Lunch), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:55 (six years ago) link
jfc my girlfriend's from jackson, ga and her folks live there. that place suuuucks
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 13:58 (six years ago) link
my best friend from college is from Jackson and he always talks about what a backwards hellhole it is. the downtown area is really pretty, though; that's where they film the Stranger Things in-town scenes
― crüt, Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:17 (six years ago) link
i picture General Bloodagent as Henry Gibson in The Blues Brothers
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:21 (six years ago) link
yeah it definitely has its quaint parts. just lotsa bumper stickers feat. cartoon zombie confederate soldiers waving the flag
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
like her younger brother who's kind of stuck there is an arty kid who went to scad and smokes weed but is like one bad muni govt experience from being "fergit, hell"
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:45 (six years ago) link
many xposts but yeah i'm terrified of some ar15 toting manaiac coming to the next big protest and unloading. something like that almost happened in mpls, some 4chan morons drove to town specifically to shoot up a BLM encampment. thankfully nobody died
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 17 August 2017 15:05 (six years ago) link
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Permit-for-right-wing-Crissy-Field-rally-to-get-11825139.php
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 17 August 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
God bless the family and the memory of Johnny Cash pic.twitter.com/y2pfGXZleJ— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) August 17, 2017
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
Recommend the interview with Terry McAuliffe from Pod Save the People. He says the protestors had 'better armor' than state police, not that they were 'better armed', btw, which doesn't really matter, but his information about how early they called in the National Guard and why.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:09 (six years ago) link
Also, at one point he says 'white supremacy? I don't even know what that is!' which is a stupid thing to say to DeRay Mckesson
― Frederik B, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
You see CPD's APCs present in a few videos from Charlottesville and most of the Nazis had homemade shields.
― louie mensch (milo z), Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
http://68.media.tumblr.com/667d5334af74c787bdcdb7dcfef87102/tumblr_ouu6vxq2G81r9wa2qo1_1280.png
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
lmao Dylan
― nomar, Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:29 (six years ago) link
Typical Dylan shit
― The Man Who Saw The Midwife (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 17 August 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
they must have an RSS feed set up to respond to this shit so quickly
― Neanderthal, Friday, 18 August 2017 00:01 (six years ago) link
Spencer's organization requested space for a speaker at the university where I work and they pondered it for a day and told him to fuck off. The college republicans just followed up with a statement that basically said "yeah we're cool with that, those guys are violent assholes".
Compare this to the university I used to work at where the president of the CR was actually carrying a torch in Charlottesville last Friday and stepped down under pressure this week.
― joygoat, Friday, 18 August 2017 01:01 (six years ago) link