some things need to be destroyed
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
Adam what is your weird aversion to public protest/confrontation
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link
It was funny. And there's a lot of very valid arguments against confronting them directly, and I don't 100% believe that as stated above setting up counter protests in other locations, ignoring them, etc will definitely lead to genocide.
― dan selzer, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
And why there was SNL on a weeknight during the summer is because they decided to have a weekly weekend update during the summer because it's doing really well for Jon Oliver, Samantha Bee, Seth Meyers, Colbert etc so how could they miss out on this?
― dan selzer, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:05 (six years ago) link
I don't 100% believe that as stated above setting up counter protests in other locations, ignoring them, etc will definitely lead to genocide.
great argument
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:07 (six years ago) link
I didn't feel like I needed to make that argument. Not sure how I feel about the argument that letting these neo-nazis march through the streets without getting into fist-fights with them will lead to genocide.
― dan selzer, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:09 (six years ago) link
Nor do I think that Tina Fey ranting jokes on TV is a dangerous argument to be really angry about.
― dan selzer, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
im seeing brigsby bear tonite
― flappy bird, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
xxp there's a huge difference between "letting them march unopposed" and "getting into fistfights"
― sleeve, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
i don't know if depriving neo-nazis of the oxygen of your attention is better than confronting them (tho that's often the argument made about ignoring other radical groups prone to violence) but it's certainly not a /bad/ argument.
― Mordy, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:12 (six years ago) link
Why is everyone automatically assuming that Tina Fey playing a character screaming at a cake before shoveling it into her mouth is meant to be taken as a 100% sympathetic, valorous character? Isn't a big chunk of the joke here that, despite meaning well and thinking some good, rational things re: how to be a decent person under normal circumstances, we're watching a terrified person who has no idea what to do so she's settled on screaming at her food before eating it? How do you remove the portion of the presentation where she is obviously terrified and doesn't know what to do and have anything cogent to critique?
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:12 (six years ago) link
Why is everyone automatically assuming that Tina Fey playing a character screaming at a cake before shoveling it into her mouth is meant to be taken as a 100% sympathetic, valorous character?
This is a very valid, Verhoeven-ian point.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
adam have u ever seen this photo y/n
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/08528d151a87c5ee48640c115edd31759dc2fbdf/c=102-0-1689-1190&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/Montgomery/2015/03/01/B9316206437Z.1_20150301013352_000_G059UEA5G.1-0.jpg
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
Whether or not it was meant as satire, it's certainly not being taken that way.
Tina Fey with the sanest response to #Charlottesville of all https://t.co/y8vqH6ySo3 via @crooksandliars— J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) August 18, 2017
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:16 (six years ago) link
But when the alt-rite are there looking to start a fight, and you show up ready to give them that fight, and there's an inevitable fight, and violence escalates, and the alt-rite uses that to fan their flames make excuses etc, I think that can be counter-productive.
Hosting a larger rally across town, or standing along their path with your back turned, or showing up to do the hora in front of the synagogue with greater numbers, those might be more productive activities.
― dan selzer, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:20 (six years ago) link
xp That's just it. There's cognitive dissonance because the targeted audience here agrees with everything she's saying about Nazis/Ann Coulter.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
Whether or not it was meant as satire
I mean, it is obviously satire. Do you actually believe that Tina Fey is saying that the way to solve these problems is to binge-eat a cake made by minorities? Do you also believe that Jonathan Swift earnestly meant for poor people to sell children the couldn't take care of to rich people so they can be eaten? Come on.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
i'm unsurprised that the Harry Potter creator is immune to comedy, however pedestrian
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
Congratulations on finding someone who understands comedy even less than yourself, then.
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
I mean, it is obviously satire. Do you actually believe that Tina Fey is saying that the way to solve these problems is to binge-eat a cake made by minorities?
I've heard mainstream libs make dumber arguments. fwiw I am willing to give her the benefit of *some* doubt, and if it was satire then she inspired a lot of people to show their asses on this and I commend her
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:24 (six years ago) link
"One in a row!" as Jerry Lewis says
xp
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:24 (six years ago) link
"...sometimes being on the receiving end of violence is the whole point. That’s how you expose the hypocrisy and rot you’re struggling against. They attack unprovoked. You don’t counterattack. You’re hurt. The world sees. Hearts change. It takes tremendous courage: Your body ends up being the canvas that bears the evidence of the violence you’re fighting against."
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/how-to-make-fun-of-nazis.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
― sleeve, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:25 (six years ago) link
Satire can have multiple targets. The piece seems like it's going after neo Nazi assholes (good) while also commenting on/skewering paralyzing inaction. There is a comforting, inviting "I have felt that fear" response that a lot of people are responding to but it's also shown as hollow, particularly when juxtaposed against the mention of the counterprotestors.
Walking away from this with the attitude "Tina Fey is literally advocating that we sit on the couch and stuff our faces while marginalized people get hurt on our behalf" seems like the dumbest possible reading of this sketch, which given everything else that's happened over the past year doesn't really surprise me.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:30 (six years ago) link
advocating for purely market-based solutions is a pretty standard line of argumentation for libs, far from surprised it's turned out to be catnip again here
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:34 (six years ago) link
jeez, are you guys gonna force me to watch an snl clipthe nazis have already won
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:35 (six years ago) link
there was one almost tossed-off line about where you should buy the cake, but I guess neolib manifestos don't have to be as big as a Tom Friedman book.
― President Keyes, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:36 (six years ago) link
I would venture most of the people freaking out didn't watch the sketch and are reacting to a twitter moment or a buzzfeed headline
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:38 (six years ago) link
Lord, protect me from my enemies and save me from my allies
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:42 (six years ago) link
alright that was pretty decent and as good as anything i've seen fey do. still no lols but a silly thing to get angry about in this immensely ratfucked cultural moment.
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:46 (six years ago) link
watch baroness von sketch everyonehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNbDGRkeylc
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:48 (six years ago) link
I keep hearing good things about that - once again, bloody geoblocked
a silly thing to get angry about
on this I agree
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:49 (six years ago) link
but what does mr bean think of the nazis?
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 18 August 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
all the tapes for mr bean goes to nuremberg were destroyed before broadcast so we'll never find out
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
omg this is an actual thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibquH4oyUIs
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 18 August 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
if by 'sane' you mean exceedingly glib and worthless than yes https://t.co/QUezF7eWHc— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) August 18, 2017
the celebs are at it (making me flash back to the most ineffective but self-satisfied responses to Bush) again— slackbot (@pareene) August 18, 2017
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 19:03 (six years ago) link
It's really incomprehensible that anyone would ever write a joke without thinking about how it helps advance the cause of revolution, isn't it?
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 18 August 2017 19:07 (six years ago) link
Maybe staying away from the topic entirely is preferable?
"revolution" gtfo
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 19:09 (six years ago) link
everybody knows America will not being doing revolution as long as the iPhones are working.
jesus pareene kneejerking like usual
― President Keyes, Friday, 18 August 2017 19:20 (six years ago) link
i had no idea that this was an actual thing when i mentioned mr bean goes to nuremberg and now i feel like i've somehow accidentally willed it into life
how do i undo the horror i have created
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link
i support public protest. it's possible to support the idea of protest and not support all protest. in fact isn't this exactly what our current situation is about?
im in favor of keeping our heads. during the Iraq War there were massive anti-war protests, 100k+ people and stronger. many people so quick to pretend none of that was indicative of any great anti-war outcry now look at a couple hundreds assholes as proof that half the country can be written off.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 18 August 2017 22:39 (six years ago) link
So you're basically against being against racists?
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
lot of US Civil War statues where you live in Denmark?
must be nice, living overseas, encouraging roaming bands of people to seek out violence from afar. fuck you.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 18 August 2017 23:23 (six years ago) link
"many people" is doing a lot of work in that tortured, delusional analogy
― sleeve, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
delusion is pretending you are Indiana Jones cos you still can't face the fact that your candidate was a horrible person.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 18 August 2017 23:30 (six years ago) link
Fuck you Adam. Yeah, I think white Americans has a responsibility to protect minorities from armed white nationalists.
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:30 (six years ago) link
Go scream into a cake, you asshole.
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:31 (six years ago) link
lol yeah that totally relates to this discussion, FP
― sleeve, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:32 (six years ago) link
(That was an xp, for once Fred and I agree)
― sleeve, Friday, 18 August 2017 23:33 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I think white Americans has a responsibility to protect minorities from armed white nationalists.
by bringing in more armed white people who are angry and want to fight?
what if a bystander is injured, what if the now much bigger crowd (counter-protesters usually outnumbering nationalists 2:1) and it overwhelms the police force. this creates a chaotic and dangerous atmosphere in that community. that community btw tends to be largely comprised of the minorities we should be protecting.
let's spend that energy on working towards real systemic change. if we cannot convince the nazis we can convince the Democrats to stand for something real for once and work with these groups to affect real change and promote policies that undo the systemic injustices. this will also give Dems something to run on that will attract third party and non voters, giving us a chance to turn things around in 2018/2020.
let's ask what these protests are trying to accomplish aside from symbolic retribution or media narrative wins. these are temporal, and they are exploitative, cos the media uses these archetypes to divide us, as it is the visual-audio version of the System of Oppression. let's look at non violent solutions is all im saying. the 60s provided some practical system-jamming and media hacking that resulted in major legislation and the start of a lot of good. sit ins were non-violent, bus boycotts were non-violent, on the side of the protesters, not always the side of the system. they used this to their advantage, it exposed the cruelty of a racist system to a national audience via TV. let's eat some cake and come up with a gameplan imo.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 19 August 2017 00:21 (six years ago) link