Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

But the original case Albert tells Tammy about -- I forget the name, but two copies of the same woman, one kills the other -- that sounds more like what I think of a "doppelganger" as being, but one of them is described as a tulpa (I think that's where the word is introduced in the show actually)

I also want to register my opinion that the Showtime teaser for this episode should have been "Bad binoculars"

Oh yeah good point about the Lois Duffy thing, but I mean "tulpa" is just a word Tammy came up with, there can still be a distinction between doppelgängers/shadow selves and manufactured people

i assume good coop is making a new tulpa to fight against whatever seed was triggered by that cell phone call 10000 episodes ago (not that he even necessarily knows about it? idk)

Was that a seed? It wasn't gold was it?

i haven't watched that episode in forever so i actually have no idea! wonder what's going on with that thing anyway

tulpa is not "just a word tammy came up with" ?

I mean it's the closest word she could pluck from memory to explain the concept 5 seconds after hearing the story, not that she literally invented the word.

Like "Tammy calls them both tulpas" isn't evidence of much of anything. I def don't think it means cooper's doppelgänger was created from a gold ball and some hair.

(It's definitely legitimate to think of him as a kind of tulpa tho, if you think of him as having been brought into being by cooper's fear as many do)

naido = "i, dona" confirmation donna is coming back

I get what wins is saying, tulpas are a description of a certain type of spiritual projection described in strains of buddhism, but it's just mapping a word we know on to whatever these seed people are.
Doesn't mean you can read the wiki for "tulpa"and assume everything applies

Then again, maybe Lynch was like, fuck it, they're tulpas

naido = idano = I dunno

Tulpa seems like a mark frost addition to me. Like dugpa it's a term that originates in Tibetan Buddhism but was reconfigured or bastardised or whatever by western occultists, and that's where frost tends to pick these things up from. I suspect lynch would have been fine to leave it at "manufactured", which tells you everything you need to know in simple terms.

xp my joke post I was gonna write about naido/odian would have been like "ODIAN. OH DIANE. HE IS MISSING. YOU THINK ABOUT THAT TAMMY."

naido = idano = I dunno

Ida No is the other half of Glass Candy with Johnny Jewel who did much of the soundtrack though I'm sure it's coincidence.

Wikipedia and its sources believe "tulpa" to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, as is "dugpa" of course - the latter's rendition as "Brother of the Shadow" makes me wonder if it's the etymology behind "Dougie".

oh sorry for the repeat there

love how JJL and Roth are always eating snacks/junk food - seems like a necessary thing for contract killing

watching this at 7 AM - nothing compares to this show really

Time to start obnoxiously reposting the theories and observations which reveal our observational genius, I guess. From just after Richard's hit-and-run:

Lynch seemed to very deliberately have Richard Horne stop his truck just as the electrical transformer from the pole above was reflected in his windshield. Significant, I'm sure (particularly since this episode had very deliberate callbacks to the scenes in FWWM of the spirits traveling through the power lines), but I'm not sure how.

― The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T & the Women (Old Lunch), Monday, June 12, 2017 8:40 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'd like to go on reddit and ask em what they think all the equipment in the fbi hotel room does, i'd be eager to see just how ridiculous and far-out their theories get

P sure it's nothing more complicated than the fact that Albert and Gordon have a synthwave band on the side.

it makes sounds

xp

I'd agree that actually naming "tulpas" seems like a Frost thing. I think one of Lynch's trademarks is that he does not name things, or when he does name things, is incredibly generic at doing so. All of the otherworldly elements are shown, but not really talked about, in his stuff.

agreed, tulpa felt like a misstep - a simple Dougie style "that's weird" would do

do you guys think the humming noise at the great northern, then at the hospital, is more of a cue or is it actually indicative of a presence?

I was thinking that maybe it was the rest of Cooper's consciousness, and he's been floating between electrical systems to check on people in Twin Peaks before finally getting zapped back into a body

imo Tammy putting a name on it sounds exactly like her notes in the Secret History book -- it's all notes in the margins and footnotes postulating what all of these compiled documents might mean

i did enjoy how dougie's drastic change of character didn't evoke more than mild surprise in those around him. side effects, yes

xposts I guess to me it's similar to e.g. the presumption that the force at work in The Exorcist is a Judeo-Christian demon. It's the job of the FBI's Blue Rose Task Force to put this supernatural phenomena in a describable context even if the description is ultimately inadequate.

i did enjoy how dougie's drastic change of character didn't evoke more than mild surprise in those around him. side effects, yes

It sort of makes you feel like maybe manufactured people like Dougie and new-Diane are ALWAYS a little glitchy. Like, maybe Janey-E and Sonny Jim were used to Dougie suddenly changing personality for a few months if he walked too close to a power line.

Do we now think Janey-E is sister to actual Diane? Or does "sister", spoken by manufactured Diane, mean Janey-E is also manufactured? Or was that whole thing just fiction on new-Diane's part?

next episode is just the red room characters arduously reverse-pronouncing "tullllpa"

I am worried about where the real Diane is

in the sheriff's station

j/k

tbf it was lynch that introduced the term doppelgänger, which is a commoner term for sure but still a pretty specific pull from folklore

I don't mind the tulpa stuff (good thing too, cause although I knew the word before I feel like I've used it about a hundred times in the last week and not once previous to that), because I tend to find the tension between lynch mode & frost mode fruitful. The fact that this dialogue is coming from Chrysta Bell rather than an actor closer to the agent Preston from the book is pleasingly off

I do still wonder about the nature of Coop's children. Like, was Richard, as the offspring of a doppelganger, a legitimate human being? Is Sonny Jim? And if not, what does that portend?

why would diane have radically shifted how she appears if that's the case? I mean I get that that seems like the likely answer now, but it doesn't really make any sense that diane would turn into an eyeless asian woman.

It sort of makes you feel like maybe manufactured people like Dougie and new-Diane are ALWAYS a little glitchy. Like, maybe Janey-E and Sonny Jim were used to Dougie suddenly changing personality for a few months if he walked too close to a power line..

They certainly both had substance abuse problems, which suggests that the existence of a manufactured person isn't the best :-(

to those that say this is lynch's last work - wrong

The tulpas seem to have some bad personal habits--what's to stop Dougie part 2 from whorin' and gambling again? Coop seemed pretty blasé about this possibility. ha xp

I haven't seen it since I was a kid but the whole Coop appears and turns the Jones' lives around story reminds me of Quantum Leap.

haha otm

Whatever the state of Sonny Jim's being he's definitely a few years too old for that gym set.

Coop saying "I've enjoyed so much spending time with you" and the looks on Janey-E and Sonny Jim's faces was both poignant and hilarious.

This tulpa stuff is so interesting in the context of Lynch's trademark identity crises in a way that simple good coop v bad coop isn't. The dissolution of Diane's selfhood after she recounts her trauma is as intense as parts of fwwm and inland empire

Even with Dougie, the notion that the Joneses are gonna get "a new one" has some weird implications - presumably he'll have OG Dougie's memories but it's still not Dougie, right? It'll be Janey-E's second replacement husband. Sonny jim echoing donna's "you're my daddy, you're my daddy" and coop saying "that's right, I'm your dad" - he's both lying & not I guess

I seem to be in the minority itt inasmuch as I didn't come to the conclusion that Cooper was asking MIKE to make another Dougie. The haste with which he made the request seemed to indicate that it was part of his plan to take down his doppelganger. I got the very strong impression that Cooper fully intends to return to his life of domestic bliss once his affairs are in order.

Hmm, doesn't he say something like "Dougie-- I mean I will be back"

I know there are people who really don't like it but I'm so gonna miss vegas and I'm so glad that coop's taking at least some of it with him & that the mitchams will be there in twin peaks continuing to call him "Dougie"

FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY
FINALLY

― FINALLY (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:20 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How Coop addresses the Janey-E/Sonny Jim situation is a good, poignant illustration of the limits of his compassion.

Old Lunch that is... exactly the opposite of how I read those scenes. Coop's not coming back to the Jones', no way.

Starting to think this show is going to end with Cooper deciding whether he wants to return to his old life or keep Dougie's

― Evan R, Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:09 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seemed like this turned out not even to be a decision for him—he just has a wife and kid now.

Making Coop completely aware of everything that's been going on, despite Dougie's apparent aloofness, was really a masterstroke. Saves so much time, gives the story so much momentum in the final stretch. Loved how as soon as he comes to he asks Bushnell, by name, to hand him one of those sandwiches, because he's famished.

why would diane have radically shifted how she appears if that's the case? I mean I get that that seems like the likely answer now, but it doesn't really make any sense that diane would turn into an eyeless asian woman.

― akm, Monday, August 28, 2017 11:11 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a fair quibble all things being equal, but last week we discovered the spirit of phillip jeffries had somehow become stored not only within the Convenience Store, but also in an apparatus that looked part teapot, part throbbing gristle found-sound instrument circa 1978, so lynch is def willing to completely reshape characters

(i know the jeffries thing was at least in part by necessity but wonder if he might not have done that teapot thing anyway)