Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

annie is an associate manager of logistics at home depot's santa fe office now, she's fine

(I like annie btw, glassy-eyed pixie dream girl that she is)

Annie's roles in the finale & FWWM are lynch making the best of a bad situation. Everyone above who's said variations on this otm.

I'm just fixated on Cooper being cheated out of true love & happiness & contentment

You're watching a different show than I am. What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.

annie is an associate manager of logistics at home depot's santa fe office now, she's fine

― Karl Malone, Monday, August 28, 2017 11:03 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

occasionally she has strange dreams though

Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.

but if he hated Annie he certainly didn't have to use her in FWWM - I mean the whole movie takes place before she shows up, you wouldn't expect her to be in it in the first place! Even if he wants that "message from the future" thing it could've been Chet Desmond or the Giant or Teresa Banks or whoever

.... eh? xp

weird characterizations of cooper itt

@sciatica - im a sucker for traumatized people finding happiness & love in a new life in a new place. Cooper being cheated out of that hit me hard. good point about Cooper being a sort of cipher for the entire series - but i still saw him as a real person and wanted him to be happy.

I feel like Janey-E and Sonny Jim are totally the family Cooper would have if he had a family. Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.

In re the long-delayed Coop return, it's one of those things that will add to the Lynch legend. "The idiosyncratic filmmaker famously waited until the 16th hour of an 18-hour film to introduce the hero."

What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.

Come on, though. He's the show's protagonist. You're not vested in his happiness and his well being, or curious about how he derives fulfillment? And when the inciting incident of the whole new series is this tremendous sacrifice that he's made, it makes sense to step back and remember why he made that sacrifice.

Lotta people in this thread seem oddly dismissive of one of the new series' biggest plot lines. Frost and Lynch could have dropped Cooper literally anywhere—on a mountain, in a prison, a different country, a gang, anything—but instead they placed him with a family we spent a ton of time with. That was for a reason.

obviously he won't be truly happy until he marries Albert

xp

Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.

― sciatica, Monday, August 28, 2017 2:19 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh whoa, I didn't get that sense at all. I thought that message to Diane about buying property in Twin Peaks was completely sincere. Cooper was traumatized by Caroline's death and was eager to start a new life. I took that all at face value.

Cooper references several things as "reasonably priced" in the original series iirc (the Great Northern, the pie at the RR?)

same xp

Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.

Yeah it's unlikely we'll get an ending this clean/happy, but if the show ends and the whole arc of Cooper's 25-year-in-the-making return is that he cracked a case and gives Gordon a thumbs up, it's gonna feel empty as hell

I kind can't envision any ending where Cooper gets out of this series alive tbh

I predict it won't be the red door thing or the case crack thumbs up thing, that is my prediction

Shakey those things all have sinister implications, the pie especially.

.... eh? xp

People as into their careers as Cooper is into his tend to be a bit self-absorbed. I interpret Cooper as trying to counter this tendency, not always successfully. Like how excited he is for his breakfast blinds him to how eager Harry and Lucy are to hear the result of his dream about who killled Laura Palmer. That's where I was going with that, just a blind spot, not evil.

Evan I'm not invested in those things, no, except as peripheral aspects of his character. He gets fulfillment from his job. He is the FBI.

These have been fun and genial threads and if I'm being a bit of a dick I'm sorry, obviously it's fine for people to watch the show for different reasons. I do think part of the decision to put him in Vegas is just how unlikely it was, for both character and setting, not something inherent in the character they're trying to bring out.

Shakey those things all have sinister implications, the pie especially.

lol ok

that's such a cold reading of Cooper. I sort of get it, but it's really sad.

yeah doesn't ring true to me either

One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked; his truest connection was with a dreamy wayward schoolgirl (actually his truest connection was with Laura but she was dead). He's a complex character, he has his cipher aspect but if that was all there was to him his fall at the end of s2 wouldn't matter

im a sucker for traumatized people finding happiness & love in a new life in a new place. Cooper being cheated out of that hit me hard. good point about Cooper being a sort of cipher for the entire series - but i still saw him as a real person and wanted him to be happy.

― flappy bird, Monday, August 28, 2017 6:21 PM (thirty minutes ago)

otm. id have no problem if he went back to them. i think its unlikely though.

just as long as he moves like a cobra one more time I'm all good with whatever happens to Coop

He's very straightforward, but never really comes off as rude or demanding. An aside like "a good price" just seems like an expectation.

In this week's episode, after he snaps back into things, he says something like "Bushnell, get my clothes, they're in the cabinet behind you"

that's not him being bossy or rude, even though it's not "could you please..." it's the well-tuned engine of an FBI man who knows what details are important and which are unimportant

like, if Diane sees Twin Peaks real estate at what seems an inflated price, then she's looking wrong

One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked

do you mean Annie? i don't think that was purely lustful at all, that was true love

one of my favorite little moments was when coop exited the hospital and executed two EXACTLY PERFECT 90 degree turns at top speed. did anyone else see that? they weren't magical or anything, they were just exactly the kind of turns special agent dale cooper would make.

haha yes

and Janey said he couldn't drive!

I've got an outsider theory that Dougie is Lynch's own vision of some type of fourth bardo ascended state TM shaman - solving crimes, removing people's pain, kicking it at the slots, defending himself - all with a minimum of words, effort, or even conventional reasoning. I love that it's indistinguishable from dementia. I'm willing to accept that might be proved wrong.

If it helps to put a more positive spin on things I agree with this Elvis Telecom post from upthread, I think this characterization of Dougie was always implicit in Cooper and for me that's what he is, a sort of bureaucratic bodhisattva, for whom desire is fraught and messy needs to be sublimated. I get the romantic tragedy angle but I don't have any faith given his temperament and history that if Coop does turn up at that red door things will be settled and happy.

/One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked/

do you mean Annie? i don't think that was purely lustful at all, that was true love

I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman who I had genuine affection for.

lol in seclusion that line sounds like it came from an unrealized Achewood character

what's that, Coop? you want to hang with the dirtiest doggs in town? *takes Coop to strip club*

These have been fun and genial threads and if I'm being a bit of a dick I'm sorry, obviously it's fine for people to watch the show for different reasons. I do think part of the decision to put him in Vegas is just how unlikely it was, for both character and setting, not something inherent in the character they're trying to bring out.

No apology necessary; I'm loving this convo and am fascinated by your viewpoint, which despite how alien it seems to me you've made a strong case for. This has been much more fun to dissect than, like, numbers or the meaning of names or w/e

I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman who I had genuine affection for.

― streeps of range (wins), Monday, August 28, 2017 3:05 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Obviously. "bang" just seems a little flippant

That's because it was, you get the picture tho

The classic "does Coop fuck?" debate is the same regardless of the crassness of the terms used

This guy fucks

*arms flap*

*thread locks*

https://www.facebook.com/CriterionCollection/photos/a.267108010564.311536.24856820564/10159292851745565/?type=3&theater

Did anybody else think Audrey in the Roadhouse was wearing a big ring that looked kind of like the ring that sends you to the Lodge if you die?

my first thought was "who let Diane Feinstein into the Roadhouse"

oh man that's mean

i will say that scene made me very slightly uncomforable so I'm glad it concluded the way it did as it seemed like the kind of thing that, if you'd let TP fans write this, they would have come up with on their own.