Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

That was not our Cooper.

Our Cooper failed to catch the killer before he struck again, had several suspects die in custody, consistently had his ass handed to him by a chump in a horse costume, and got himself stuck in the black lodge; I'd say a lot got by him.

Haven't dug too deep into theories yet, because I'm enjoying letting my mind wander, but this is one of the most sensible explanations I've read:

last scene was a dream

laura in 1989 is the dreamer

cooper asks what year is it

laura's mother calls out to her from the waking world

laura recognizes her mother's voice and realize she's dreaming

she screams and wakes up back in 1989 the morning they would have found her body had cooper not had changed the past

As with everything Lynch it's not so clear cut as just a dream but... well dreams have a lot to do with it. Also fits in with the many, many, many times Laura talked about dreams or living in a dream

But yeah different realities seem to be dissolving into each other, if he's occupying two minds at once he might not register a difference in architecture. All part of the dream confusion innit

Goddamnit we never found out whose voice Evil Cooper was talking to in episode 2

xxp I quite like that at first glance, my gut feeling is that there are many compelling non-bleak ways to read this and I suspect I'll tend to gravitate toward those, but there's always that killer ambiguity

Yeah... most of Lynch's major work ends on with a "happy" ending if you interpret it the right way. Mulholland Drive's final ending is tragic but also happy---the character gets relief, and ends in a dream world.

Crazy how much the general MD interpretation ("tragic, troubled woman dreams of a better world that explains her pain" applies to this. Though I think it's logical to interpret a good chunk of this series/finale as Cooper's dream, too (dreaming of his rescue/escape from the lodge, for instance?) Dude was there 25 years... he needs to think about something to pass that time.

Our Cooper failed to catch the killer before he struck again, had several suspects die in custody, consistently had his ass handed to him by a chump in a horse costume, and got himself stuck in the black lodge; I'd say a lot got by him.

― streeps of range (wins), Monday, September 4, 2017 10:00 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah yeah lol. I retract my statement!

nonexistent

^i guess the Arm's doppledanger won after all

the finale was definitely a disappointment while watching. just sitting and watching characters sit silently in a car. then watching a random lady ask her off-screen husband who owned they bought their house from. like most episodes i feel blindsided and am only starting to process what i just witnessed.

Laura's death and the fight vs Bob anchors the whole series. it is the atomic core of Twin Peaks. after Bob is killed, after Laura is saved, there is nothing left. good has won, Laura gets to live her life and actually grow up. yes evil has been defeated but it robs the thing of its essence. the dead guy and her meth head ways suck but this is still a more hopeful ending than what she originally had. it makes sense that our Cooper would "disappear" at that point too. Laura's death is what brings him to Twin Peaks in the first place.

yet there is some stuff hinting that this Richard guy is a fully (or at least partially) aware Cooper and there is some unfinished business with the house. so even taken at its bleakest ("Cooper is trapped in an alternate dimension") it seems like he is at least somewhat cognizant of this, leaving the door open for possibilities.

i really loved the shot of Sarah Palmer stabbing the photo. a callback to Ike the Spike? it was very cathartic. and yay we got to see the Major's head!

lots of twisting emotions. the mysteries never end.

is the ending of twin peaks cooper...running out of sand

When Cooper is leading Laura, there's a sound (iirc) before he turns around - it reminded me of the evolution-of-the-arms 'I sound like this' noise. But I haven't checked.

It's the phonograph sound from the opening scene that the Fireman specifically tells Cooper to pay attention to.

yeah lol i was waiting 17 hours for that damn sound

Ah, right! I thought it sounded more biological than that at the time - a bit like Hannibal Lector's slurping noise.

Was also looking for an Orpheus/Lot reference, but he looked back all the time!

I need to watch Inland Empire again, it's been far too long. But part 18 was so much of what I loved about Mulholland Dr but less doggedly schematic, and the same for IE but concise and with total tonal control. Just incredible. I don't think I'm going to be able to let it go for some time, and all of the loose ends from a world that felt chaotic and open and often incomprehensible enhance the emotional wallop rather than detract from it, for me. It feels unfinished in a way that's evocative and generous and trusting.

beautifully put

I'm fine with loose ends not being tied up and conventional story structure being flipped the bird when it comes to what's (possibly) just a dream.

sciatica otmfm and furthermore

pic.twitter.com/pZWbuMYYPQ

— Darren Franich (@DarrenFranich) September 4, 2017

sciatica otm

the ending is also literally vertigo imo

The art thing this all felt most similar to me is "The Testament of Orpheus" -- surreal exploration of the creative process, the relationship between art/artist/audience, death and resurrection, etc. And starred its director, too.

Looking for a glimmer of hope in that insanely nihilistic ending. Struggling

i was looking forward to canceling showtime but now i've gotta watch the whole thing through at least five more times

A version of dale (dougie) gets to live happily ever after with a version of Diane (her sister). That's ok.

i was looking forward to canceling showtime but now i've gotta watch the whole thing through at least five more times

I want to do this but the quality of the stream on my TV isn't that good. What's the estimate on the blu ray box set - a year/ year and a half?

A version of dale (dougie) gets to live happily ever after with a version of Diane (her sister). That's ok.

Yes. Yes. This is the glimmer, at the very beginning of the episode. I noted it last night, but that was Cooper's true sacrifice. He not only saved Dougie's life, he improved his life and the lives of those around him.

there is hope at the end, the fact that he remembers the other timeline, his other self. they retcon the Twin Peaks pilot by having him stop her murder. potentially this stops Cooper from even coming to Twin Peaks in the first place. the original series could be wiped out entirely.

but it's not! that original trauma is too strong. you can erase the karma. the scream at the end is simultaneously terrifying and hopeful. the original series does still exist, it is real, even if just in the heads of these two lost souls standing in the middle of the street.

Cooper's journey reminds me a lot of the concept of the Bodhisattva. someone who is so full of compassion that even though they reach the spiritual level where they can leave the cycle of birth/death, they choose to remain in that endless hell to help others.

you can't erase the karma

What was going on with Diane seeing a doppelganger of herself (Linda?) in the motel parking lot while Dale/Richard checked in?

And then her purposefully obscuring his face with her hands when they had sex?

Also speaking of sex scenes, I believe there were 3 sex scenes in TP:TR, and all of them involved exclusively the cowgirl position. Is this a Lynch thing?

I definitely thought this was a callback to the Dougie sex scene.

And the scene from ep1 in the video room with the box?

Love
Don't go away
Come back this way
Come back and stay
Forever and ever

The world spins

xp plus Dougie and Jade

That Julee Cruise song was put to great effect. It's been haunting me today.

That's my favorite JC song, she's correct above in her way, it would've been better with a full performance

Forgive me, I'm going to repeat a few things from earlier in the thread.

So much to say. Impressions of the entire thing.

Halfway through season 3 I bought the box set to get to get Missing Pieces, only intended to watch that at this point. Watched that then was overcome by this incredible yearning to watch it all. Kind of like a lovesick feeling you rarely get with art, when it feels like there is absolutely no substitute on earth for the thing you're fixated on. Nothing else will do.

I thought maybe on revisit I'd decide I actually preferred the original run for its soft glowing idyllic beauty.

And it is gorgeous, in this aspect I prefer the earlier stuff, the first few episodes are bliss at times. But as I anticipated, the soundtrack becomes a huge problem. Of course it's one of the best soundtracks ever recorded but a few of the pieces are played so often that they become irritating, lose their power and even make some scenes seem a bit ridiculous. Some of the plots go on just a bit too long. There's one really dumb scene in which James, Donna and Madeleine don't make sure to be quiet about their big secrets in the diner.
Can't believe how many characters I forgot!

Apart from the finale, I hadn't seen the second season because of its mixed reputation and I was scared it would ruin the soundtrack for me. It does still abuse some of the music and its difficult to get through that but gradually some variety eases that a bit more.
So many beautiful places and beautifully furnished rooms. I particularly love Jack Nance as Pete.
A lot of people said the show jumps the shark at Leland's funeral but I thought the real nadir was mostly contained in the episodes about Ben's confederate fantasy and old Dougie's supposed death by sex and Cooper ridiculously letting Dwayne with a shotgun talk things over alone with Lana.
There's still a bit of slogging yet, Windom Earle is handled really badly but I felt the last episode redeemed him. The scene of Bob grabbing Earle and blowing fire out his head is one of my favourite things in the whole of Twin Peaks. I don't need to say how great this episode is.
So glad I watched the whole second season, it has some of the scariest scenes. Odd that in one of the last Episodes, Earle has a weird pale face, seems like something that would only be in a Lynch directed episode.

Rewatching Fire Walk With Me, I think it maybe ties with Inland Empire as my favourite Lynch thing ever. It's one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen.

And with finishing the 90s Twin Peaks, I'm left with that lovesick ache again. I realise that no matter how well the third season finishes, there will always be a terrible void left by wondering what could have been if it finished in the 90s. Lynch said there could have been four seasons. It is difficult to imagine how they'd get it made properly when audiences responded so badly to the film. Maybe the music would be ruined by that point? How many ideas did they have left over? How much of the third season is old ideas? How many ideas became unusable?

In many ways the third season is superior to the first two, whatever people say about drawn out scenes, I think the overall pacing of plots is much much better. I love the eight episode like everyone else. Bob in the sphere reminds me of an old first person videogame like Doom.

I'm scunnered, saddened and a little angry at the grim ending but it's undeniably a great ending.
Unlike at lot of people I don't think it's THE ending. I still feel Fire Walk With Me's ambiguous but happy ending is part of the real thing.

Lynch has said he'd like to do another season and a few of the actors are super eager. Surely the main obstacle is getting the money again. Many fans might be hesitant to demand another season that may finish like previous seasons: landing in deep shit again.
I'd be very surprised if Lynch or Frost didn't have further developments for Sarah, Audrey, whatever is happening in the walls (they must have at least outlined further things about Josie).

I'm not a huge fan of Fulci's The Beyond but that ending and this season 3 finale seem very similar to me. I've heard that Fulci wanted a sequel and that sounded incredibly intriguing to me. I get the sense Cooper is left to navigate a slightly similar world but there are all sorts of alternatives.

I want another season. I understand the feeling that the plots will ultimately go in circles and repeat things Lynch has done throughout his films, that a lot of the plots ultimately don't matter when you get so many alternate versions of everything but I'm fairly confident there's more to be done that would be rewarding.

For Inland Empire, Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway I never cared much about the theories, I was quite content with the sense of networks of significant people and alternate versions but Twin Peaks at this point is different to me.

When I saw the ending I thought "surely this is to get us to beg for more?"

the hands on the face thing also felt like a callback to Mr. C with the mechanic.

thinking about the idea of Agent Cooper bringing Laura back home, this was a very powerful resolution to the story, and i think it treats with respect the original murder story. it is not erased. even if he goes back in time and fixes the events of the pilot, it is a horrible thing that happened, a thing that we are aware of. there is no erasing that original violence, there is no forgetting what we know. this is even true when Cooper changes names and possibly universes.

perhaps this is the dream: that he COULD fix everything, erase the abuse, the murder, all of it. the truth is he can't. putting a happy ending on here would have run false. we even give it a few attempts, with the travelling back in time to the pilot.

the ending we got may be frustrating but it was devastatingly honest. seeing those two actors, 25 years later, in front of the Palmer house, that was pretty incredible.

the more i think about this the more i like it.

I'm scunnered

otm

great post Adam

if they had made Sarah the big bad and for sure Judy it would have shifted responsibility for Laura's murder onto her, meddling with the core mythology in an iffy way. i am glad Sarah (and the house) remains a mystery. the blame for Laura's death remains Leland's fault. that original tragedy is eternal, it is preserved, even across universes.

i do love the cosmic humor of having Dougie walk through life succeeding effortlessly at everything corporeal existence can offer while everyone wants Cooper back while Cooper shows up in action mode, looks like he knows what he is doing, and gets utterly lost. inaction vs. action. feels like a metaphor for meditation or spiritual growth. driving 430 miles to get nowhere.

man you are on a roll. I wholeheartedly agree with all of that.

I didn't see Sarah as the bad guy. But her pain caused by Lelands actions opened her up. I think final Cooper recognized that relationship when he saw the white horse in Carrie Pages house, as the white horse would visit Sarah when Leland was killing.

Then it wasn't just "I have or get you home" it was I have to get you to your mother or am I remembering that wrong.

I have to watch the last two episodes again, I'm still trying to process them. I admire the daring of the ending.

Re Diane's hands on Cooper's face: earlier, Cooper asks Diane if she remembers everything; she says she does. I interpreted the motel sex scene as Diane struggling with the memory of her rape by the doppelganger and especially her memory of his face and smile; hence her covering Cooper's (unsmiling) face. It didn't seem to help.

Diane putting her hands on Cooper's face during sex just seemed to indicate that after having been assaulted by C she couldn't look at that face and see (only) Cooper again. The way Maclachlan's face was shot during that scene reinforced the ambiguity

Float!

I mean xpost!

Dan I. otm