Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

/Man, all this stuff about Coop failing in the end, being defeated, etc: I can kind of see it, but there's very, very little textual support for the amount of attention that's being given to this line of thought, it seems to me.

― Dan I., Tuesday, September 5, 2017 3:24 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink/

Yeah I can't speak to the accuracy of this interpretation, could well be true, but that narrative falls real flat for me. Cooper failing at the end of S2 was powerful, because we'd spent two seasons with him and seen the limits of his goodness. Ditto Naomi Watts being pushed to the edge in Mulholland Drive, b/c we'd spent much of the movie with her. But Cooper failing at the end of an 18-hour odyssey he was barely a player in for the first 16 episodes is really unsatisfying. Why did he fail? Why did he do anything he did? It was hard to tell, because we'd hardly spent any time with him

apart from the two seasons we spent with him

So, what exactly happened in the scene with Mr. C in a cage by Garland's head? Most of it seems pretty straightforward, but just before he was sent to the TP police dept. parking lot, C was transformed into... something. I thought it was a monkey on first viewing, but it's not. It looks like a bristle brush and a marble? Is it maybe a golden ball and a shock of hair (i.e. the components for constructing a Tulpa)!?

(this question not related to the "did Coop fail" thing)

he didn't fail tho! all season he was constantly winning without even trying. he even went back in time and stopped Laura from ever dying in the first place.

I haven't rewatched since the first time but I thought it was just his head from a rear angle lol

it's a bezoar

Oh yeah that! I forgot about that, but it stood out while viewing. Bristly hair was sticking out between the bars- it made me think of a porcupine almost

Xpost

he even went back in time and stopped Laura from ever dying in the first place

this is an odd interpretation

Yeah seriously

did you miss when the wrapped in plastic disappeared BTTF style?

*screaming intensifies*

Yeah, it seemed clear to me that that's what happened! That's why Judy (in Sarah) was so pissed off! She (It) had been foiled

how great was it when Sheriff Truman has Bad Cooper in his office, looks right at him, and says, "Cooper.. Cooper."

he had shit figured out

"C was transformed into... something. I thought it was a monkey on first viewing, but it's not. It looks like a bristle brush and a marble? Is it maybe a golden ball and a shock of hair (i.e. the components for constructing a Tulpa)!?"

you mean when he's walking away in the parking lot? you're just looking at the back of his head; it kind of looked like his FBI pin was being used to hold up his shit ponytail

i love how ambiguous the ending is. it could be Laura's dream. it could be Cooper's dream from season 1. the first time he enters the Lodge and is 25 years older is in a dream.

also fwiw i don't entire buy that Sarah is possessed so much as the house is a super conduit for negative vibes.

The story ends with a confused Cooper and Carrie/Laura screaming out of pure fear/terror. How is this not a failed venture? *scratching head*

Was gonna ask if you guys stopped watching at part 17 but even then...

twin peaks is a good show because no one can agree even on the most basic elements of what happened
like at this point i feel like i could say "kyle maclachlan starred in twin peaks" and someone would have somehow missed that or be convinced that it was a different actor
this is not a dig at anyone, i have missed important stuff too

Can't remember if someone mentioned this above, but the moment Laura disappears while holding Cooper's hand in the woods, isn't the sound that plays (before the curtain flapping and laura screaming sounds) the Fireman's record player sound from back in ep. 3 ?

akm: no, in the cage before he is sent back to the parking lot

apart from the two seasons we spent with him

That's a cheat, though. The Return was an 18-hour work meant to stand on its own, just like fwwm did but on a more epic scale, so ending it with a "here's what this season says about a character sidelined for 94% of the series and that we hadn't seen for 25 years before that" feels empty

did you miss when the wrapped in plastic disappeared BTTF style?

...except then Laura disappears while he's trying to lead her out of the woods (presumably back to the White Lodge idk), Cooper clearly fails to rescue her. He hears the sounds from the opening scene in the first episode ("listen to the sounds") and then she's gone. I took this as a literal "you can't change the past"-type failure on Cooper's part. Which is what drives him to subsequently continue with Diane down the road to the point in the desert by the powerlines, which leads to the other alternate/inverted reality.

xp

he rescues her from the story line of the original twin peaks but doesn't necessarily save her completely, i.e. protect her from evil/her fate forever

but the body didnt turn up and pete just fished

what is that sound anyway? a record skipping would make sense thematically...

[but the body didnt turn up and pete just fished

soooo.... where does she disappear to?

to not death

I feel like the recurring trauma (the Scream, etc) is part of Laura's (the bigger Laura "spirit" that the Fireman sent to earth) "job"--the way that she works against evil is to be a kind of ritual sacrifice, an archetypal victim (and I know people have deployed this idea w/r/t Laura even before S3)

The Scream is not a defeat, the Scream is what Laura does

I guess her not getting murdered by being magically led away by Cooper through the woods doesn't make sense to me because it leaves all the other factors that led up to her murder in place. Does Leland just decide to ... not kill her? I mean wtf

xp

i think he prevented her from going to the train car that night with ronette

I guess I would feel more confident in that interpretation if the shots of Pete fishing/body disappearing etc. came *after* she disappears out of his hands rather than before

When I agreed that it was a weird interpretation I wasn't disputing that the disappearing body signified a change in the story, I was questioning Adam's idea that "you still get raped constantly from ages 12-17, but I'm going to remove the most significant choice you make in this story" as yet another example of a whole season of frictionless winning for Dale. Plus yeah all the stuff that happens after

i think he can have saved her that night and still not have "saved her". he succeeded in stopping her murder that one night but he failed in defeating evil and death forever.

I enjoy reading all of your thoughts but I literally (thankfully) have no more thoughts on this, just unable to parse or process it. My only take away is this season gave us a deeper understanding of the Twin Peaks mythology, which I loved

another way dale can be seen fucking up... laura chose death that night.. it's what she wanted

http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Mrs._Tremond/Chalfont

fyi, in case it hadn't been linked before

same two last names mentioned by the woman who opens the door at the not-Palmer house

I wonder if Coop knew that the Fireman made her, and that's why he wanted to save her

Dang what happens to Ronette then?

http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Mrs._Tremond/Chalfont

fyi, in case it hadn't been linked before

same two last names mentioned by the woman who opens the door at the not-Palmer house

yes, this is why I didn't get what chaki was talking about about the "real" owner of the house

another way dale can be seen fucking up... laura chose death that night.. it's what she wanted

Yeah, the changed timeline (which obviously doesn't take, cmon guys stuff happens after that you need to keep watching) is only a victory for dale's ego. If you've seen the end of fire walk with me and your takeaway is "it would be much better if instead of this she didn't die in the train car but the rest of her shitty life was exactly the same" then...

xpost That lady is apparently the real owner of that real house in real life. Our real life.

right but she is playing a character with a name that has significance in TP - she is not using her real name or presented as the "real" owner in any meaningful way.

and there's no way to know that piece of information strictly by viewing the show so I would err on the side of saying that's not significant

I was reeeeally hoping for about ten seconds that Cooper stashed Laura in the lodge and then made a duplicate that actually got killed. But that's the same sort of wishful thinking that led him to try such a misguided venture

Dang what happens to Ronette then?

oh, Ronette's fine. she's an assistant logistics manager down at the sante fe office of home depot now

Xxxp

Right, and it's hard for me to buy Cooper's ego outweighing his understanding of Laura's life, so I feel like the primary motivation has to be the Fireman's direction from the beginning. I don't want a cut-and-dry, logical explanation, I just wish there was a little more dream-logic to go on to justify an obviously crazy decision.

But in any case props to Lynch for replicating and intensely magnifying the reaction I had to the S2 finale, which was the hardest an episode of TV had ever hit me up until now.

I feel like whatever Laura whispered to Coop in the lodge was significant

but we'll never know

another way to view laura's death/non-death: maybe coop prevented her from dying in that particular way (which is why we see pete go out fishing with no body wrapped in plastic) but she ends up dying anyway, soon thereafter. her destiny was to die, she wanted to die and maybe needed to die in some ways. there are multiple planes with different versions of laura: she's the homecoming queen, she's the wise being whispering things to cooper in the lodge, she's the redeemed soul seeing angels with coop at her side, she's possessed, she's evil, her name is carrie page, etc. coop is able to save her from death, but it's not like the next time we see her in the episode is the day after that, or whatever. it's jumping around all over the place.

xxxxxp thanks for the cicada credit all - or :-) ALL - and at the risk of sounding peevish it was me who first raised the Dougie as Alzheimer's metaphor too.
A couple of random observations, apologies if they have already been made but it's tough to read it all!
- the development of the atomic weapon was the Manhattan Project and of course the glass box was the Project in Manhattan - both evoked the creator / mother figure
- in the Palmer house the main signifiers of evil were electrically powered and repeating in cycles - the fan revolves, Leland's record player skips, Sarah's television plays out the same 20 seconds of the boxing match in a loop. And of course "listen to the sounds" is a scratching record skipping the same loop.