Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

Simon has put that dirt in his pocket

lol

simon will you make the final podcast a long, detail-oriented discussion of mountaintop ecosystems?

Or replicate Jay Leno's post-Cheers finale show and just get a bunch of TP cast members hammered on-mic?

I went back to the waggish piece to try to give it a better read. I'm just not into longform pieces like that, there are too many unsupported interpretive leaps you have to just sit with while following along. Like when the author says

Cooper tells her to turn out the light in the hopes of sparing her some of the trauma, but it’s an empty gesture. He is guilt-ridden with the sins of his doppelganger.

Sure, that's a possible interpretation of that action. But it's not how I read MacLachlan's performance, which (as posters have pointed out above) is graded into Mr. C in an ambiguous way. And I find the implications of that a lot more interesting and conflicted and truer to how Dern plays in response. But then it just keeps going from there. Like the line I quoted above about Carrie Page being a less traumatized version of Laura, except for the dead body in the room. Slow down there buddy, maybe we should unpack that a little?

I like the message board format better for trying to work all this out, where we can argue with each other in real time.

That said, I think this is really good:

Why would the Fireman, portrayed as a positive figure, create (or at least target) such a martyr figure? Without knowing the exact mechanics, I suggest that Laura Palmer was meant to function as a capacitor: storing a huge accumulated charge of suffering which could then be discharged at the precise moment. Laura’s immense suffering does not make her superhuman, but it makes her uniquely capable of serving a purpose in the Trap. In the right setting, this discharge could overload the circuits of a Lodge entity and destroy it altogether. To use another apt analogy, it would be like an atomic bomb reaching critical mass. But with fissionable material as substantial as Judy, you would not want to detonate it in our universe, or else it would take most of our world with it.

It pushes against that blurring of roles through circumstance (Carrie sharing some with Shelly eg) and gets you thinking about why the distinctions that remain might be important.

So that aerial shot of the avenida 9 de Julio, was that stock footage or (what I prefer to believe) did they go to Buenos Aires to shoot a single establishing shot for that one scene of a black box in a plain room turning into a whatever

I disagree with about 1/3 of that piece but it's food for thought

That piece looks tldr but sciatica's post gets at my problem with a lot of readings, inc Adam's above which is a strong interpretation in many ways, which is that they seem to wilfully ignore the actual emotional texture of what we're shown

I don't think we'd get a sex scene where Dale Cooper seems like himself because Dale Cooper does not fuck

wilfully ignore the actual emotional texture of what we're shown

yeah I hate this mode of interpretation tbh. I generally work backward from what we're shown on-screen, and a big part of that is how the actors are handling a scene

like, what is emotionally going on between everyone involved, how is it being portrayed, what is the effect/mood being conveyed

I don't think we'd get a sex scene where Dale Cooper seems like himself because Dale Cooper does not fuck

otm, he's too pure

tbf the show skimmed some of the more disturbing moral implications of the show (by making leland (and now sarah)) less responsible for their actions)

― na (NA), Thursday, 7 September 2017 16:46

Don't know what you mean. They're possibly both possessed and we never get to know how responsible they are.

In the description for Final Dossier it says there will be season 3 stuff. It's a short book and people have speculated it's just material from the writing of Secret History that would have been spoilers for the third season.

So much of the fascination for me with Lynch is the way you have these bizarre leaps in story logic, or elements of story logic that seem to be missing altogether, things never quite line up in this way, yet there's a pretty easily identifiable (often funny and devastating) emotional throughline that's rooted in all of the illogical aspects: the performances, the tone, colors etc. That tension between the two is so important but can be very easily be unraveled by ignoring one to focus too much on the other.

like, what is emotionally going on between everyone involved, how is it being portrayed, what is the effect/mood being conveyed

Which in lynch is usually very complicated obv! Don't wanna act like these scenes are always easy for me to read or even know how I feel about

/I don't think we'd get a sex scene where Dale Cooper seems like himself because Dale Cooper does not fuck/

otm, he's too pure

Dale had sex with annie in season 2

The most interesting part of that piece is the demon summoning sex, apparently that was in Secret History?

Two parts I didn't buy.

- Why would a huge amount of trauma destroy Judy?

- Laura really didn't look like she was doing a job, her scream seemed to be almost involuntary.

otm, he's too pure

"It had only happened once before..."

^that crack in the facade that opens into a whole other world

https://i.imgur.com/A3breF2.jpg

that crack in the facade that opens into a whole other world

otm

lol

...at butt

he makes love, off camera, and it's very sweet

交代, pronounced jiāo dài (transliterated into "jowday", which then evolved into "judy"), is Chinese meaning 'to explain'. The ultimate negative force is explanation.

People have been passing this around. I'm sceptical but it's interesting.

Other interesting things I didn't know.

http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/35549/1/laura-harring-david-lynch-mulholland-drive-interview

OK, even if it’s not Laura Palmer, other clues connect Mulholland Drive to the world of Twin Peaks. In fact, Sherilyn Fenn confirmed on Twitter that in 1990, between seasons one and two, Lynch pitched her Mulholland Drive as an Audrey Horne spinoff.

While fellow cast members Naomi Watts, Patrick Fischler, Robert Forster, Brent Briscoe and Bonnie Aarons (the terrifying hobo) are in the upcoming season of Twin Peaks, Harring’s name is noticeably absent. “My agent didn’t want me to be one of the 200 cameos,” she explains. Instead, her agent held out for a more substantial role that didn’t materialise. She’ll still be watching, though. “Whether there’s 300, 400, 500 cameos, anything David touches is cinematic. The original Twin Peaks ending, with the old man, was hysterical.”

fwiw my post was a tongue-in-cheek statement, sex is sex, but it's the viewer perception of character and what's portrayed on screen. we can kind of assume characters have sex, but actually showing the act removes some level of (innocence?) disconnect and we get into the weird baggage about how romance is portrayed both parallel and counter to sexual nature in fiction

Gordon Cole definitely fucks, though

I don't think Bonnie Aarons is in season 3 though.

I had to go back and look at the date and source of the Mulholland Drive sequel rumor- it was 7(!) years ago, and came from Harring herself.

who is she talking about with the "old man" in the S2 finale? the waiter?

bank teller

I also saw that article linked in another one that claimed Harring was offered something in TP The Return but turned it down; but I never saw confirmation of that. what was she offered?

Did Laura only remove her face in season 3 or was that in the earlier stuff too?

Harring in MD is like the textbook example of Lynch getting a perfectly modulated performance out of a pretty limited actor. She's married to like the prince of Luxembourg or something so since money isn't an issue I bet her agent has had some fun over the years with the let's shoot for the moon strategy.

xxxp ahahahahah oh right, love that guy

she still has her countess title but divorced that dude in 1989, unless there's a different relationship that wikipedia/imdb hasn't tracked. she lives in LA, I think

oh n/m then, I'm all mixed up

That piece looks tldr but sciatica's post gets at my problem with a lot of readings, inc Adam's above which is a strong interpretation in many ways, which is that they seem to wilfully ignore the actual emotional texture of what we're shown

― streeps of range (wins), Thursday, September 7, 2017 2:23 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what? why do you think this about my reading?

season 3 has been more emotionally gripping than ever before imo. Laura's scream is the end of the show, it is the defining last word in the series, it is and has always been terrifying. it the emotional nucleus of the series. this is why even when travelling to realities where Cooper barely remembers who he is anymore Laura's trauma is the defining force of the pan-dimensional universe of Twin Peaks. how can you say i am ignoring emotional texture, whatever that is?

i also fully support the realness of Ed/Norma/Nadine/Jacoby storyline and say that shit made me tear up every time i watch. Otis Redding live, the fucking pauses, holy shit. Ed looked so sad in that empty scene earlier, making this all the more sweeter. Nadine for once gets to make a decision about her life for a change. Jacob helped them dig out of the emotional shit, following through with them all in therapy at the end of season 2.

does it make it any less beautiful if it is an unreal dream? no, of course not. Gordon, Jeffries, and Cooper says "We live inside a dream", this is the ancient phrase. dream in the Hindu Kush sense, the playful creation of reality. we experience dreams as we experience our "real life", through the body, through the mind, through abstract concepts and labels we have given things physical and abstract. this is what they are talking about when they say life is a dream.

i like the time jumping and use of cutting around time periods, i think all three seasons now are sort of shuffled like a deck of cards. it flattens events, makes nothing less important than anything else. it heightens the ability to create/imagine where the mystery could go from there.

as for Cooper/Richard in that last episode i have no idea, he is sort of acting like a broken robot, i need at least a month to unpack all of this before saying i have a definite theory about any one scene in this entire series

sheryl lee has one of the all-time great screen screams

Laura's scream is the series mantra.

what is this emotional texture i am missing? what year is this?

since this thread has served its major function i'd like to say thanks also - it's been a lovely and stimulating thread and it's been a good time! an excellent reminder of what ilx is at its best!

i'd like to say thanks to ilx lurker, Priory, who sent me a helpful email off the back of this thread. I was unable to reply to your message since I couldn't find your details (ilx mail doesn't allow one to simply respond to a message!) - anyway, thanks and please de-lurk. x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-_aJ1BiFE

xp all that's fine, I'm mostly thinking of this

he didn't fail tho! all season he was constantly winning without even trying. he even went back in time and stopped Laura from ever dying in the first place.

Which if you look at the ending and you're thinking "wow Dale wins again, just like in Vegas with the Mitchum bros, yep, literally no difference" you are ignoring entirely the emotional tenor of the finale, which is that of a nightmare.

^ wins OTM

Laura feels like she's a victim in some ways, unable to accept her solitude because Dale comes to force her to realign with her past trauma

I'd hardly call her life in Odessa "solitude." she has a dead body in her living room and has people after her either for that or something else. the universal trauma of Laura Palmer reverberated through Carrie Page's life, too.

not calling her life solitude, just saying she can't pursue true solitude

sorry if badly worded

and also i basically agree with what you said as well, that it reverberated through Carrie

Laura is stronger than Cooper though. The stubborn, insistent intrusion of fwwm into the return allows me to take comfort in that film's ending, which seems to stand outside of time (at least, it doesn't fit into the timeline of dale's visits to the red room in original series + tptr). Again, the whole end of this feels like a repetition of "don't take the ring", which was ultimately an insignificant failed intervention that Laura shrugged off as she dealt with her trauma her way. I think dale's more gravely trapped than she is by the end, precisely because her pain and sorrow can't be contained or undone.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b0/46/27/b04627a4b216f91d9cb7e9cf1eb77b7e.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHEVGFae09s

https://i.redd.it/5i3doc4hjikz.jpg

From Reddit. The label on Janey-E's trousers says 'Paige'.