Throwing Muses: C-o-D

"hook in her head" is on the real ramona. it was before that album that she lost custody of her eldest son - i think the father was an ex-manager - and her mental illness was used against her during the hearings. hence the track "dylan" i guess. i don't get that it or she sounds "dead" though?

"hunkpapa" had a lot of record company interference supposedly. it's the weakest sure, but it's still got loads of great songs that haven't already been mentioned like bea and take, as well as mania etc.

I don't think it was all label interference. I remember an interview where Hersh said she could feel some people getting too overwhelmed, and thought she'd try writing songs with only one hook going at a time instead of three to six. even with thin production it's got moments. then they took a half-step backwards towards jumbled for "Real Ramona" (+ better production) and nailed what they were going for.

proud owner of grapefruit edition of "Ramona" CD

yea i was gonna say that ramona seemed too cool/sensible a progression for it to be all label interference

what's the grapefruit edition?

silkscreen of perfectly halved grapefruit on CD surface. same music. in 91, full color CDs were still kinda wowsville.

nice. the only limited edition thing i have is that brilliant live at maxwell's cd which came with the first copies of red heaven.

anyone seen any of the reunion shows? i'm gonna see them at primavera :D :D :D

Oh gods yeah I just mixed up Hunkpapa and Real Ramona, gah.

I have the live at Maxwells CD too, didn't know that was a limited run thing.

Joe: by reunion shows d'you mean TD is back in the fold? Wonder why that wasn't the case when they toured Aus a few months ago, if so. Not that I mind all that much.

Challops time: I never cared much for Tanya's work in the band, first EP and album aside. Yes, "Green" and "Reel" were brilliant, but I found songs like "Not Too Soon" rather tepid and poppy. They werent what the TMs were about, for me personally. It's perhaps worth noting I likewise really dont like Belly at all.

Yes, I often wonder how 'limited' limited really is....

(I too have the Maxwells CD. And 'The Curse', another "limited" live CD...)

Oh the Curse! Man I havent listened to that in f'rever.

I had some very early TMs (and Pixies) casette boots floating around. From the days they were still relatively little-known and just on 4ad. Raw stuff, quite good. Must try and find and mp3 them.

I may have said this upthread. I am going senile.

no tanya for the upcoming shows, they just hadn't toured for ages until nz last year and aus a few months ago, i think. don't call it a comeback, they've been here for years etc.

Yeah the show here in Jan was awesome, they still got it, well worth seeing them.

demo of a new song: http://throwingmuses.cashmusic.org/

sweet! thanks!

Throwing Muses raw studio feed on Vimeo. "unedited video of throwing muses in stable sound studio, portsmouth, ri, usa...january 2011"

!!!! amazing

Yay in the studio! Let's see which Muses are in there.

Kristin, David and Bernard... very good.

according to kh's twitter, they finished recording today: "loose ends tied up in the studio, everybody's going home...sad but, a year and a half in the making, the record sounds exactly as it should"

yea i just saw that! lovin it hard

So what is essential listening in your expert opinions?

real ramona was my intro to them, which i think is a good midway point betw. the early/late stuff.

1st album, Chains Changed EP, The Fat Skier are all great

other people might rep for House Tornado or the later stuff, but for me it's all about those first three (and "Fish" of course, a comp track).

The first, self-titled album is essential.

Real Ramona is the only Throwing Muses album I know. I rep hard for her solo album "The Grotto" and everything she's done with 50 Foot Wave. 50 Foot Wave is fucking massive.

would recommend House Tornado, one of my favourite albums of all time. as powerful as the debut, but in a more contained way - they took off the razor sharp edge. the debut IS essential listening though, and the EPs already suggested are similarly high quality.

Real Ramona is a good entry point for some, cause it's as about as big and colourful as they get without being dull. Late period albums (University, Limbo, second s/t) all solid but less remarkable than the early stuff. Avoid the awkward middle years (Hunkpapa, Red Heaven) until you get to know them better

ST first album is one of my all time favourite records.

e - I know that for a while, she would have a good selection of free/tipjar mp3s on her website. I dont know if she's still doing that, but it would be worth checking out.

I have to say start with the first album. It is them at their rawest core. Perhaps I'm biased because I've been into them since they began and hearing the debut and the Chains Changed ep just did my head in completely at the time.

He
Won't ride in cars any more
It reminds him of
Blow jobs
That he's a queer

...such a strange song.

skip Hunkpapa, but dl 'Dizzy' - it is a jam

seconding s/t, rr & esp. the Chains Changed EP

I still need to hear Fat Skier

Ugh I hate "Dizzy"!

Well no not hate. But I dont like it.

i don't mind dizzy but it seems like time has been unkind to it

will agree with everyone saying real ramona and the debut

ST first album is one of my all time favourite records.

― Bonnie Tyler The Creator (Doran), Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

not too soon >> everything else tanya donelly ever did

Nar I prefer her on "Reel"!

"Fat Skier" is a really good ep btw. Especially "Soap and Water", which is a delightfully schizy scattershot jam.

"This is my house, roll out the red carpet/hogs head on a ragdoll/never was a little girl"

Wait thats Garoux des Larmes. Anyway.

"Low Red Moon" was the best song Tanya ever recorded, you pack of trolls!

The order you first hear these things makes a big difference; I heard House Tornado before the debut and the latter always seemed kinda grey in comparison, like its muted cover. I sort of forgot about it for years. HT still sounds perfect and powerful but the debut I only really rediscovered thanks to reading Rat Girl last year, and it's incredible.

The received wisdom on Hunkpapa is that it's stymied by airless, flat production cos there are certainly some great songs in there, kinda writhing to get out (kinda hanging on his sleeve).

The Real Ramona has dated a fair bit to these ears. Red Heaven better than I thought it was on release. The subsequent records all have their moments, but nothing to touch the thrill of S/T-Chains-Fat Skier-HT.

I will happily listen to/read anything Kristin puts her hand to.

I was surprised to learn lately that "The Letter" (from Hips & Makers) was originally a Throwing Muses song written in 1984-5. so it's not so much a recollection/reliving of her past as it is an immediate expression of anguish. the recording I heard (from a 1985 radio session) is a 7-minute-long VU drone, but the sound quality is awful.

does anyone know if the bootleg of early ('83-'84) Muses demos is any good?

Wow thanks guys. I don't know how I never got into them earlier but this is sort of a newish discovery for me even though based on stuff I've listened to and loved throughout the years I should have been a fan for a long time by this point. Thanks for all the input. Will check it all out.

never heard those early demos, would be interesting. there are some live recordings spanning 1989-2009 at archive.org - http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=(collection:ThrowingMuses%20OR%20mediatype:ThrowingMuses)%20AND%20-mediatype:collection&sort=date
think there's 50 foot wave and hersh solo stuff too.

Oh I've heard some of (all of?) the early demos when they had that other member who played keyboards. Some of it was utter cheese! Like, nothing at all like what was to come - just clumsy 80s home pop band.

you also definitely want to listen to both Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donelly's solo work. at the very least, Crooked and Sunny Border Blue for Kristin, and Lovesongs for Underdogs for Tanya

thanks, tyler (xxp)! that's a lot to take in. there are some early Muses recordings here, including the early demos (which I haven't heard), a live set from 1986, and some early acoustic versions of tracks from their s/t.

in terms of recommendations I second their first two albums and The Real Ramona (I really like the way the guitars sound on that one). Kristin's solo album Hips & Makers and Belly's Star are also essential.

oh cool thanks right back atcha.
real ramona has a real early 1990s college rock sound, but in a good way imo.