IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

Hmm! Styx comparison is interesting... Actually I think I may have brought up this album when "Too Much Time On My Hands" came around on my classic rock education thread - 70s veterans excited to find in new wave an authorization to turn back to the garage rock of their 60s teenage years.

I was thinking Jackson more in terms of arrangement/backing track than vocals, tho obviously Doug Stegmeyer is no Graham Maby. (Frankly I would struggle to think of more than one or two memorable bass guitar parts anywhere in Billy's catalog. Usually Billy's handling the low end, and he'll freely admit he's not much for melodic left-hand playing... One of the things that produces the odd hybrid sound of this album maybe.)

Memorable bass parts... probably the jazzier numbers like the Stranger intro, maybe Mulberry Street. Honesty has a nice slide in it. Only Human maybe?

I was going to compare the politics of this song to the politics of "Rockin the Paradise" but Paradise Theater actually came out a year after Glass Houses! It would be interesting to understand if there's a common "I don't know why I'm still a nice guy but I'm getting close to the borderline" ancestor. Note that "Paradise" is actually a lot more anthemic "Young America listen when I say" stuff -- you're right, "Too Much Time On My Hands" a much better comp. But really, this is Joel TRYING to be hard-edged and cynical but then he admits that he cries a lot and wishes he had someone to talk to. I think it's kind of a good look actually!

I think this is Joel's attempt to understand and perform what he sees as "punk rock."

Yeah, my thought was always, "Billy had obviously heard at least Johnny Thunders and/or Bowie by this point."

The only other human being I had ever heard use the phrase "a buck three-eighty" -- before owning this album -- was my dad, also a New Yorker.

Wait is "a buck three-eighty" an actual phrase a native English speaker might say? I thought it was another "right number of syllables, song sounds fine, let's move on it's good enough" Joelism. What does it even mean?

Can't find anything solid but this link appears to date it to at least the 1930s: http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/a_dollar_three_eighty

New semester and heavy mid-week workloads mean I'm falling behind with Billy, so here goes:

"I Don't Want To Be Alone" - sneaky of Billy to give his cover of "Watching the Detectives" a different title, huh? But seriously, the thing that I'm finding revelatory about Glass Houses is the influence of Costello, et al. Because Billy is one of the quintessential artists of my childhood, and Costello was a big part of my formation as a teenage music nerd, it would have never occurred to me that there could be any connection between the two. Billy is Establishment and EC is Punk--something that was made clear to me not only by the Rolling Stone Album Guide but also the first Elvis Costello fan I ever knew--a "cool" friend of my parents who impressed 15-year-old me with his taste in music and films and literature (not only had he read John Irving, he had THEORIES about him!) and who, though I don't recall if the subject ever explicitly came up, surely would have hated Billy Joel. Even if I still cared about such posturing, it is comforting to discover that the pop music world is smaller and more interconnected than I ever thought it when I was younger.

"Sleeping With the Television On" - In a similar vein as the above, but actually a stronger and more distinct song. For all of the talk above about Billy's approach to lyric writing, I gotta say that I'm impressed by his phrasing here: its urgent, clever and I particularly love the way he sticks the name "Diane" on the end of the first lines of each verse--these types of lyrical addresses tend to invert this approach, introducing the subject as early as possible in the lyric (there are a million examples, so you'd think I could come up with one...), but Billy's tagging of the name at the end of the line makes the song-as-address feel more authentic as a conversation (albeit a one-sided one). It's a small thing to get hung up on, but it the kind of touch that really makes the song, for me.

"C'était Toi (You Were the One)" - Yeah, Billy shouldn't do French, but the song was already a bore before it got to that point.

"Close to the Borderline" - Alfred's comment, "I'm not sure what this song is about besides its own aggression," pretty much nails what I'm hearing (or not hearing) here. A tight vocal and musical performance, but nothing about it--lyrically, melodically--sticks with me much.

When I Get to the Border > Borderline > Down by the River > Down to the Waterline > Close to the Borderline

Don't Stand So Close to the Borderline

You shouldn't play –
with my heart.
You know you gotta finish what you start.
If you want me –
Gotta let me know.
Because, Honey, don't you fool aroooouuuuunnd...

don't push him 'cause he's close to the edge

this sounds a little more like a songwriting exercise to me than the rest of the new wavey moments on glass houses. bar band having fun with punk. but it's a really good bar band and the fun translates. and the lyric is pure billy, lawn guylander who just can't take it anymore. he could sing the same thing over a piano ballad or a ronettes homage and it would make perfect sense on turnstiles.

solid post, cuz.

Would like to hear a GnR cover.

funny thing is, the ostensible premise of Turnstiles was that BJ felt obliged to be at new york's side through its time of crisis, stand up for its qualities against those who would let it burn, proclaim a new york state of mind. now he commutes from a glass house in long island and gripes about all the street hassles driving him crazy just like some tourist.

Weird to hear the genesis of this as it goes from 52nd Street sitcom theme to sneery UK "punk" wannabe.

"the ostensible premise of Turnstiles was that BJ felt obliged to be at new york's side through its time of crisis,"
I really don't think was in the city during this time ...

nice link pplains, wow. i kinda like the sitcom theme one better! worth scrolling back in that youtube for some other treats. the dinky little "drum program built into the organ" demo of "the stranger" is real cute. the take of "stiletto" reminds me of whoever it was on this thread who said that the released version sounded like the vocal came in from a different approach to the song.

meanwhile: The Stranger turned 40 today. Rolling Stone has a little track-by-track feature, tho not much we haven't heard already here.

Here's another YouTube with Glass Houses demos, outtakes and unfinished mixes. The creaky demo of "Don't Ask Me Why" (then "Come On Tonight") starting at 15:45 has a nice kinda curdled quality to it though that might just be the recording quality. Interesting how much he seems to have been writing in the studio by this point. "Sleeping With The Television On" (21:53) is mostly there musically but almost all the lyrics are different and most of what's interesting about the final lyric isn't there... just filler and placeholders, maybe even ad-libs of generic song-stuff for a lot of it.

I'm kinda surprised this one has generated so much talk, it didn't really grab me either way

"I Don't Want to Be Alone": somehow I skipped this one when we covered it. Bites a lot of Elvis Costello but does it well. I like the guitar work

"Close to the Borderline": this just sucks. Usually there's something I like about each song but this is irredeemable for me. Hate the chorus, riff pattern gets old fast, and his singing is annoying. Surprised y'all like it

I dig this!!

J Geils + Styx is where my brain goes. Sliiightly punk but a watered down KMart punk

my other weird thought is that it gives me an Eagles vibe? not the sound so much as the feel. maybe cynical Billy venn diagram crosses over here very slightly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSQTSiveZHU

Through The Long Night closes Glass Houses with something very different from the blast of attitude that opened it.

Not what I pull out this album for, but it's nice I think. Reminds me a bit of "Summer's Day Song" on McCartney II, which came out a few months later.

lovely. and very very mccartney. i had completely forgotten about this one until i saw him play it the last time i saw him, two years ago at madison sq garden. my highlight of the night. and a wonderful, if unexpected, finale to my fave billy album. if i was being a tough professor, i'd grade the album A-minus.

J Geils + Styx

that's a good call.

Geils fits that Daryl Hall generational slot too - just a little older than Billy, was in his first bands in the mid-60s, arrived at new wave with multiple albums under his belt already but clearly found aspects of it that clicked with what he understood pop-rock songwriting to be.

Wau @ pplains link

through the long night is lovely

9/30/17 set list

"Miami 2017 (Seen The Lights Go Out On Broadway)"
"Pressure"
"Vienna"
"The Longest Time"
"The Entertainer"
"Zanzibar"
"The Boxer" (with Paul Simon)
"Late in the Evening" (with Paul Simon)
"Movin' Out (Anthony's Song)"
"The Downeaster Alexa"
"She's Always A Woman"
"Don't Ask Me Why"
"New York State of Mind" (with Miley Cyrus)
"Allentown"
"My Life"
"Sometimes a Fantasy"
"River of Dreams"
"Scenes from an Italian Restaurant"
"Piano Man"

Encore:
"You May Be Right" (with Paul Simon and Miley Cyrus)
"Uptown Girl"
"It's Still Rock & Roll To Me"
"Big Shot"
"Only The Good Die Young"

okay I would have been way into that

this really is the best billy joel album at least until the next one maybe. the bad songs are more innocuous than bad (or at least i don’t feel like i’m s u f f e r i n g through them like some of the deep cuts on 52nd street)

"Through the Long Nights" doesn't really feel like anything else on the album. It sounds like he deliberately composed it just to have a lullaby-like album closer, which may very well have been the case.

https://img.discogs.com/ZRWIfQIJPM5fTDeTqhvNzkqQxu0=/fit-in/600x606/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8096912-1455074790-9148.jpeg.jpg https://img.discogs.com/JNqmjQ2NMi0xr7FyqsnFqe3WlgI=/fit-in/600x613/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8096912-1455074794-3385.jpeg.jpg

https://img.discogs.com/uqnKGfmsPRpym6-RnvHrLCCJN1Q=/fit-in/600x609/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8096912-1455074809-9704.jpeg.jpg https://img.discogs.com/nEiyYWKIvtLRNDHMD8wk38biUIE=/fit-in/600x610/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8096912-1455074813-2564.jpeg.jpg

Drawn from arena and club stops on the Glass Houses tour the summer of 1980, Songs in the Attic served both as a stopgap release in the annual Billy Joel schedule, and a roundup of tracks from his first four LPs for the huge audience he'd acquired since The Stranger, now considerably enlivened by the energy and tightness of the well-established Billy Joel Band. Ironically, then, it's also our farewell to sax-and-organ man Richie Cannata, who left or was let go by the time of The Nylon Curtain.

The album was a success, peaking at #8 on the US charts, #3 in Japan, #9 in Australia, and respectably elsewhere. As singles, "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" and "She's Got A Way" peaked at #17 and #23 respectively. "You're My Home" seems not to have gotten a US release and was not a hit anywhere that it did come out. The album has been certified three times platinum - pretty good for a live disc, if not quite Frampton numbers.

I linked to these versions as we hit them along the way, and I'm certainly not going to do a song-by-song runthrough of this release, but since I'm under a deadline for the next couple of days, I figured I'd propose it for some general listening. As previously discussed, I've come to slightly favor the pre-Stranger 1977 Carnegie Hall recording for being just a little rougher and live-r feeling, but still, I think this thing is great. The tracklist follows below, but for another fannish thought-exercise: anything you'd swap out? Suppose it'd been a double LP (one disc of "arena" songs, another of "night club" numbers) - what's missing? I'll nominate "Travelin' Prayer," "The Entertainer," "Falling of the Rain," and what the hell, "Tomorrow is Today," assuming a serious rethink of that Joe Cocker bridge...

1. "Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)" - from Turnstiles
2. "Summer, Highland Falls" - from Turnstiles
3. "Streetlife Serenader" - from Streetlife Serenade
4. "Los Angelenos" - from Streetlife Serenade
5. "She's Got a Way" - from Cold Spring Harbor
6. "Everybody Loves You Now" - from Cold Spring Harbor
7. "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" - from Turnstiles
8. "Captain Jack" - from Piano Man
9. "You're My Home" - from Piano Man
10. "The Ballad of Billy the Kid" - from Piano Man
11. "I've Loved These Days" - from Turnstiles

BTW, YouTube has a couple people hawking "outtakes" from this album - sometimes miscellaneous cuts from the editing room, sometimes whole sets from the tour. I haven't really delved into this, but the version of "You May Be Right" that opens this set is pretty cool, and there's a hot "I'll Cry Instead" at 38:25.

1. never listened to any Billy Joel album ever until my band accompanied Jonathan Coulton (there's a name you don't read on ILM much, approvingly or otherwise) on the songs from GH. "through the long night" was BY FAR the hardest to learn and then to play.

2. in the front rank of 70s-80s mainstream rock guys and their bands, the ones in which the backing guys have the greatest name recognition, in descending order…
a.) E Street Band
b.) heartbreakers
c.) tie for Seger & the Silver Bullet Band, John Camp Cougar Melon's band and BIlly's guys…

Liberty is the only one a "rock fan" of the time and afterward would reasonably be expected to know in Billy's Band (aronoff is the only well known one for JCM,. Do Billy stans like FCC have other longtime favorites in his bands? are there any such guys for Seger?

strongly disagree on Mellencamp considering he had both Lisa Germano and Kenny Aronoff in his peak era bands

Prince's band has provided the world with some personalities as well.

There's no Angry Young Man or New York State of Mind of Songs in the Attic - they seem like the biggest omissions.

It's weird because I always THINK there's an "Angry Young Man" on there! Maybe he felt satisfied that he'd gotten the band's sound down on record on Turnstiles for that one -- whereas "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" and "Miami 2017" on the LP are really quite anemic-sounding.

I mentioned this way back when, but: the "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" on the Greatest Hits is this version - as was "She's Got A Way," when it got added for the CD release.

Strongly prefer the SITA "She's Got a Way."

o Billy stans like FCC have other longtime favorites in his bands? are there any such guys for Seger?

for bllly: liberty was always #1, but richie was always a fan favorite, too. as a saxophonist, he got a lot of featured spots, particularly on "new york state of mind." but maybe saxophonists are always the fan favorite: the one guy i could name from the silver bullet band is alto reed (the best-named sideman in the history of rock).

i believe the fan favorites in billy's bands now are mike delguidice and crystal taliefero. mike came to billy's attention as the frontman of billy cover band big shot, and he continues to play with big shot even while playing guitar and singing harmonies for the actual big shot his own band plays tribute to. crystal first came to prominence as a member of john melon cougar camp's band, where she played alongside the above-mentioned kenny aronoff and lisa germano.

where does crazy horse fit in the 70s/80s mainstream rock sideman rankings? do regular rock fans only know the name "crazy horse," or could they name the players?

Aren't Talbot, Sampedro, et. al. terrible players by any standard that isn't Neil Young's (I love them).

they're certainly less traditionally/technically gifted than many of their peers. i love them too. but i believe the question here was about name recognition, not chops.

i would add under to the bands tied in "c" any backing band that had waddy wachtel in it.

elton's guys too - dee and nigel surely known to EJ fans but nobody else.

ha and by dee I mean davey, proving the point

currently watching a live facebook feed of the lords of 52nd street (incl. liberty, richie and russell javors) playing "all for leyna."

"Through the Long Night" is a sweet closer. Glass Houses was a great album overall, certainly my second favorite after The Stranger - New Wave was kind to him

what up Doc

Soon!! Probably tomorrow AM actually... Sorry, been a packed week between finishing up a lecture and grading stuff. If you like, think of this as a simulation of the long writing and recording process for our next album...

oh sweet i'm gonna listen to songs in the attic tonight in preparation