Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

I've tried to hold back in general with people posting about this elsewhere, but we as a society need to address both the causes and methodology of mass shooting events. But the methodology, meaning the ability for people to have a shitload of guns, is the main one.

It's such a fucking red herring to pin things on "mental illness" because, like any other illness, it can have sudden onset or be caused by trauma. Even if we take guns away from every person diagnosed with schizophrenia, every domestic abuser, every felon, that doesn't stop the fact that mental illness is harder to quantify and diagnose than physical illness, and we're only good at that with the most obvious conditions.

Any person can have a concussion, a car accident, a stroke, a heart attack, and have their brain change from trauma. Among other things.

Too bad that the NRA and their associated nuts believe that guns exist in some rarified sphere where they should remain untouched by the rules and regulations and social conventions that govern every other fucking thing that exists.

It's such a fucking red herring to pin things on "mental illness" because, like any other illness, it can have sudden onset or be caused by trauma.

frankly a guy like this had obviously so deeply buried a mental illness that no one saw this coming, he kept everything hidden. for every Adam Lanza type, or someone like the Port Arthur killer (guys who exhibited behaviors that were clearly related to mental illness), you get fifteen or twenty like this guy or the Columbine killers. I said it before but how can anyone differentiate between a guy who's got a chip on his shoulder vs a guy who's dreaming about and planning to execute a mass murder of people he doesn't know? you can't, the latter guys are *never* the type who "seems like a murderer." Maybe they're kinda of a dickish uncle type. Look at this Paddock asshole.

people surprise others by killing themselves all the time, doesn't seem like a stretch for mass murderers to do likewise

it's kind of a catch-22 where we say no one who could do this could be mentally well, so we immediately rush to find signs that there's a pattern conforming to mental illness because this is not a thing well people do

I mean, maybe really getting into buying a bunch of objects that are made to kill human beings is one of the telltale signs that you might be cultivating an interest in shooting people

I try not to rag on the US too much, but 'absolutely insane' doesn't begin to cover the situation in this article.

https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns

Too bad that the NRA and their associated nuts believe that guns exist in some rarified sphere where they should remain untouched by the rules and regulations and social conventions that govern every other fucking thing that exists.

― this is ridcolus (Old Lunch), Thursday, October 5, 2017 2:49 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah sometimes it seems like the NRA is focusing on the rights of the guns themselves not peoples rights to own them

it's just darkly hilarious to me that the people who are banding together over their right to own toys for grownups that double as mass murder machines are the ones who wail and have a victim mentality.

There is always a certain horror-show fascination with a spectacular crime like this one, which the media is very happy to feed to repletion, but after the most basic facts have been reported the coverage soon devolves into a peep show. As for his murky motives, I can see how finding a motive, or what is more likely, inventing one that sounds plausible, would help those who struggle to make sense of this kind of ultraviolent act, but ultimately no motive could be sufficient to 'explain' this crime, because no combination of emotions or rationalizations would reliably deliver this kind of a result.

it's just darkly hilarious to me that the people who are banding together over their right to own toys for grownups that double as mass murder machines are the ones who wail and have a victim mentality.

That GQ article is fascinating Andrew, thanks. What a Kafkaesque rat-maze of paperwork, just the way the NRA prefers to keep it I'm sure.

NRA obviously posing a bit/casting blame but they are saying they are behind bump stock regulation

. @NRA STATEMENT: pic.twitter.com/6kWKq6uF6F

— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) October 5, 2017

At this point, the hardline gun people are being absolutely unreasonable. They have to make concessions. ANY concession. It's fucking ridiculous to even debate whether certain measures will "work" or not. Something needs to be TRIED.

Well, this IS the concession. I don't think you'll get any more.

yeah that's it.

funnily enough, the NRA being behind it makes me think it's totally inconsequential but ok

All we have in this life is imperfect solutions, so it's time to apply some of them

"Despite the fact that OBAMA allowed the sale of bad things, WE, the NRA, are calling on reviewing these bad things anyway. Because we care so much. THANKS OBAMA."

Scumbags.

Also, just 5 million members and the strongest lobbying kru out there? Smdh

yep get ready for the Republicans to fall over backwards patting themselves on the back over bump stock regulation

Of interest.

Less than a week after Las Vegas, NRA Country's biggest stars are distancing themselves from the org. My latest:https://t.co/1p7jrojrGd

— Jonathan Bernstein (@jonbern) October 5, 2017

Ned otm

Whoa, forgot to bookmark this thread. Yeah hey I'm not an Alex Jones false flag fucknut, I'm actually in line with what the Sheriff said: "Maybe he was a superhuman who figured this out all on his own but it would be hard for me to believe that.” I have no idea who or what helped him, but at the moment the police are fairly certain he had assistance. So it's a developing story. Motive will not explain senseless murder but it's absolutely not a "who cares" issue. We can have a larger conversation about gun control & also be curious to see a fuller picture of how & why this went down. And by the way, conspiracy theories =/= "false flag" / "crisis actors." Conspiracy theories are a form of coping & I understand people that are searching for meaning or a culprit in an incomprehensible tragedy. It's not the same as denying the Holocaust, or harassing Sandy Hook parents.

It's not always the same, but it's a pretty slippery slope.

Yes, that's true. I don't take conspiracy theories lightly, but because of Alex Jones, it's become a grotesque hobby for thousands (millions?) of people, which is disgusting. But to dismiss any curiosity or desire to know more about a particular case as batshit or offensive or "who cares" is painting with a broad brush. Understandable, once again InfoWars has made this topic so fucking toxic & disgusting. But wanting to know more, searching for meaning, speaking from my own experience, it's a form of coping. I don't claim to know anything about this but it's obvious there are major details missing. I understand people that don't care, but it's not inherently gross to wonder.

I'm actually in line with what the Sheriff said: "Maybe he was a superhuman who figured this out all on his own but it would be hard for me to believe that.”

The sheriff (and you) both sound like mouth-breathing idiots fwiw:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/clark-county-sheriff-says-hard-believe-shooter-didnt-have-help-unless-hes-superman

zerohedge are you fuckin' kidding me

Oh fuck off

Also, your pull-quote as-is is only featured on the infowars and whitelivesmatter/crackergrandpa.facebook.newz outlets as well so there's that.

So yeah find me your exact quote on a legit non-alt-right website and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but until then, gtfoh with your bullshit.

Watch a video of the press conference. here's Deadline fwiw: "It was also said that Paddock may have had some kind of assistance. It was revealed that he made an escape plan that he could have pulled off alone only if he 'had been a superhero.'"

yeah he had help, he had stores willing to sell him unlimited guns and ammo and a society that's cool with that. I'd question whether lugging in a bunch of duffel bags over the course of days was suspicious, but really, not knowing how long he took to set this up it could just be normal eccentric guest behavior

an escape plan that he could have pulled off alone

escape plan! he didn't escape

I have a ton of plans that I could only pull off if I was a superhero but that I can't because I'm not a superhero so what's even the point of bringing them up, particularly if I've opted to kill myself instead of trying to implement one of my impossible plans.

I'm just imagining a crude drawing of him jumping out of the window unharmed and bouncing hundreds of miles across the desert.

xxp

yes! it's completely plausible he acted alone. & also possible he didn't. Wouldn't have brought this up unless the Sheriff said as much. Tried to do it respectfully & without claiming anything insane. Just FYI, I don't fuck with any alt-right bullshit. Not my bag. I'll dip out now, don't want to distract from the (much more valuable & urgent) discussion about gun control & our societal problems.

I adore the NRA's hamhanded dig at Obama ("This'll kill'em!").

sad fact is that it's fairly easy for man with the will, time, and means to plan and carry out something like this. amazing thing is that it doesn't happen more often.

this is plenty often

I just can't believe he was shooting at fuel tanks. Not sure what the fuck he thought was going to happen.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

https://res.cloudinary.com/stephens-media/image/upload/v1507173957/webSHOOT_targets_Oct5-17_copy_new.jpg

my guess would be accidental misfire, ricochet, something like that?

or he thought it was some call of duty shit that would result in a massive explosion?

lol yeah

yeah probably...

A source knowledgeable about airport operations said jet fuel is hard to ignite and tanks like those across from Mandalay Bay have mechanisms in place to prevent fires.

Mike Boyd, a Colorado-based aviation consultant, echoed those words.

“A machine gun is not going to blow up a tank of fuel,” Boyd said. “Jet fuel itself sitting there in a big wet pile is very hard to ignite. You have to be a very amateur terrorist to think anything like that.”

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/shooting-gas-tank/

if he did in fact believe that they'd blow up and he took some of his limited shooting time to aim there, i guess that's a silver lining. possibly it prevented him from killing a few more people.

Jet fuel can't melt steel tanks

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/06/the-argument-gun-rights-supporters-cant-respond-to

crossposted to actual gun thread

Why does he think gun nuts wouldnt want a death app, of course they would

the would want it if the government or criminals could have it. they'd want it even more if it had chat and themed skins.