Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

Colin Firth saying "I knew and I'm ashamed I didn't do anything" is at least honest. So far the split seems to be, roughly, something like this:

Woman who has encountered Weinstein makes a statement: "everyone knew about this".
Man who has encountered Weinstein makes a statement: "I didn't know about this".

The latter looking more and more dubious as this continues.

Yeah, I would be much more sympathetic to someone who just said -- "Yeah, I knew. We all knew. I didn't come forward because I was afraid to rock the boat and I wasn't sure it would do any good, and I was afraid to get sued for defamation and ruin my career."

Other than Hitchcock are there many deceased people who people started telling stories about? Obviously they have families and people interested in protecting their legacies but I'd imagine it's easier for older actors or their families to accuse people who are gone?

H'wood is a very gossipy town and stuff tends to circulate while people are alive, going back as far to the days of Fatty Arbuckle and Charlie Chaplin. I'm sure people in H'Wood knew about Htich and Hedren, the crew on the Birds knew it for ex.

While Chaplin seemed to serially seduce his often younger leading ladies (as Gary Cooper did later), he was the Most Famous Man in the World for a long stretch, so while there was certainly a power dynamic at work I haven't read about any assaults per se.

Ronald Reagan of course

Regarding who knew and when, a lot of the men who didn't know didn't know because those who knew deemed it unsafe to tell them.

re: Oliver Stone... he also was lecherous and aggressive with the director of CITIZENFOUR, who scooped Stone's Snowden movie by a couple years. Tried to convince her to delay releasing her film so his could come out first... prick

ugh, never knew about any of that

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/oliver-stone-snowden-biopic

Speaking of the Snowden documentary, Stone clashed heavily with its director, Laura Poitras. She recalled that when they met for the first time in 2014, Stone asked her to delay the release of her film, because his "would be the real movie."

“To have another filmmaker ask me to delay the release of my film was—well, it was somewhat insulting," she said.

At another point, during dinner, he also “reached over and had his hands around my neck,” she remembered, “sort of in a joking way.”

“I think he was a little bit drunk,” she said. “But it was not a particularly pleasant evening.”

I've been very skeptical about all these Hollywood people claiming ignorance about Weinstein. I think it's possible they weren't aware of the rape and sexual assault details, but they surely knew that he wasn't a good person, it was common knowledge. I even think this extends to Hillary Clinton and other politicians that took money from him and treated him like a friend. It's dumb that there's been this whole side conversation about Clinton, she doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud, nor should this conversation even be about her. But I can't help but feel ambivalent about her and other democrats taking his money. Again, it's completely possible they had no idea about the rape allegations, but they must have known they were dealing with a bad character.

How am I, an average consumer of movies with an ordinary life and job, supposed to feel when I read self-indulgent shit like, "gee, I didn't know?" Shows you how out of touch some of these celebrities are. I mean, I've worked in offices where there is a serial harasser or general creep, and EVERYONE KNOWS. And it's difficult enough to get these guys in trouble when you're in a much lower income bracket. Why are they tweeting at us peons? No, we don't understand. I guess they're just trying to save face, but fuck them. Hope this fucks up ALL of their careers.

there's layers though

I mean not to be captain obvious, I'm more just thinking this through out loud myself but...

there's the sad enraging truth that Hollywood is, and has always historically been, by and large a very self-involved, self-protecting "commmunity" -- or "town of strangers who happen work together", depending on how high the stakes are

and even workplaces in general can be that way too.

if someone has a reputation like Weinstein's not only sexually but the whole magilla of being intimidating and prone to violent outbursts and also holding a lot of power, all of that is likely received in terms of how it affects one's self and one's career. especially in Hollywood. if you are part of the circle that "knows", it may just mean that you conduct yourself in a way that means you don't have to deal with him or you limit your dealings, give him a wide berth so to speak. for dudes this may mean you still shake hands and go out to dinner because you know that *you're* not in danger. that's reductive but still, I think it happens more than we're willing to admit.

And you've seen from the stories the woman have told, being one who 'knows' and shares that knowledge with others can have consequences. the fear that word gets back to Weinstein that the warning came from you is enough to make a lot of people stay mum no matter what, because they don't want to risk their jobs/careers/whatever.

It's like the common stories you hear in workplaces: longtime employees might know amongst themselves who to stay away from at parties or who gets handsy when left alone but no-one's necessarily making a point of telling the new employees. Depending on the environment and the offender in question, it may just be pure luck that the new employee happens to befriend someone is willing to share that knowledge with you. if you don't socialize or you're not thought of as being the offender's 'type', you may be left to learn on your own.

there's so much coded langugage and behaviour around these types of people and so much weird shared understanding of how socially or professionally those people are dealt with that a hundred people could KNOW and still never actually help anyone, especially if that person generally conducts themselves in an intimidating manner; or alternatively if the offender is the 'great guy' who is great to everyone, same thing applies.

again, this is all stuff we all know, but I think it's important for the 'why don't they just' angle to be seen in light of what really goes on

I was reminded this week of Jared Harris's anecdote from his AV Club interview a few years back about working with Oliver Stone.

Natural Born Killers (1994)—“London Boy”

JH: That was wild. I went in to audition for a different part, and clearly, before I got in, the casting director had told Oliver Stone my name, and who I was, and that I was Richard Harris’ son. Oliver was clearly pissed off that he was seeing an English actor to audition for an American role, because I get in there, and Oliver calls me Richard the entire time, and when we start to do the scene, the casting director doesn’t even wait for me to get halfway through my lines before he gives me the cue for the next line. He’s just basically rushing me out of there. I can see that he’s cowering a bit, and that he’s being chewed out, so I’m assuming that’s what happened. It was a fucking disaster. I get out of there thinking that was a fucking waste of time. “What the fuck? He didn’t even get my fucking name right!”

So I’m going home, and a phone call comes through to my agent, and they want me to come back and read for a different part that is an English part. So I go back in there a couple of days later— this time he’s got my name right—and I’m halfway through that, and Oliver Stone cuts me off and went, “Yeah, yeah, you’re a natural. You’ve got this part. It’s yours. Do you want to… do you have a girlfriend?” I say, “Yeah.” “Is she an actress?” Now, she was just thinking about getting into the business, so I immediately go “Yeah, of course she is.” She has that one line at the end of the scene. So he goes, “Bring her along and she can say that line.” I go “Great.” So I go home, and I’m all proud and everything. I’m like “I got you a part in an Oliver Stone movie,” right? So I’m a hero for a couple of days.

We get to the set, and the girl is absolutely gorgeous, and they dress her up in this long wig with this tank top where the pits are out and these tiny hot pants and these long boots, and she looks basically like a tart on any boulevard late at night on a Friday, you know, hustling. Which is kind of strange. But Oliver’s tongue falls out of his mouth like the cartoon wolf as soon as he sees her, and he comes up to her, he goes, “Oh my God, oh my God, you are so beautiful.” He goes “You are so beautiful. Don’t you know that all the men here are in love with you?” I’m looking at him, and it’s kind of embarrassing. I’m standing next to her while he’s doing this, and I say, “Are you speaking for yourself there, Oliver?” And he looks at me like I’m an ant. “What the fuck is this peon doing talking to me? Why is he opening his mouth?” He kind of withers me with his stare, and he turns back to her, and he goes “So, tell me, have you got a boyfriend?” And she takes a little bit too long to answer. There’s this long pause, and she sort of sticks up her hand, points her thumb, and jerks it in my direction.

And he goes “Him?” And she goes “Yeah.” “With him? This guy?” She goes “Yeah.” He goes “Jared?” She goes “Yes.” He says “But… with… where did you meet… I mean, Jared?” And I look at Oliver Stone, and I went “Yes. You knew that. You asked me to bring her.” I said, “On your way, Stone. Turn around and on your way.” And he gets a bit shocked, and he turns around and starts to walk away, but then he remembers that he’s the director. He stops, and he looks back at me, and he goes, “That was a typically English thing to say.” And I look at him, and I go, “I’m sorry, what would the American thing have been? You can have her if I can have a bigger part?” From that point on, he fucked with us all day long. He was furious. That was my Oliver Stone experience.

oh man that last exchange is priceless

I have no memory of Jared Harris in that movie

Oliver was clearly pissed off that he was seeing an English actor to audition for an American role,

. . . in the movie where Robert Downey, Jr. plays an Australian.

Nothing like watching a dude who creeped on my 18yo friend talking about the HW saga as the ‘counter’ to feminists on Newsnight.

jared harris is the fuckin man!

Other than Hitchcock are there many deceased people who people started telling stories about? Obviously they have families and people interested in protecting their legacies but I'd imagine it's easier for older actors or their families to accuse people who are gone?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, October 13, 2017 4:05 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this kind of reminds me of the 'everyone is a pedo' revelations in the UK

Emma Thompson - one of the more radical prime-time interviews I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_W6kPqR9U&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_W6kPqR9U

yes - it is pretty fuckin definitive that interview

Wow Emma Thompson is great

This is odd. I’m not sure what makes this the op-ed to write at this particular juncture.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/mayim-bialik-reflects-on-hollywood-feminism-after-weinstein.html

“As a ‘nontraditional’-looking woman, I came back to an industry that had me auditioning for the ‘frumpy friend’ or the ‘zaftig secretary,’ though I eventually landed a role that has earned me four Emmy nominations,” Bialik writes in a New York Times Opinion piece about her decision to return to acting after pursuing a doctorate degree in neuroscience. “And yet I have also experienced the upside of not being a ‘perfect ten.’ As a proud feminist with little desire to diet, get plastic surgery or hire a personal trainer, I have almost no personal experience with men asking me to meetings in their hotel rooms. Those of us in Hollywood who don’t represent an impossible standard of beauty have the ‘luxury’ of being overlooked and, in many cases, ignored by men in power unless we can make them money.”

on the other side of it, Melissa Sagemiller has come forward with a vv straightforward account of his modus operandi:

Over two dozen women have come forward with accounts of Harvey Weinstein’s sexual misconduct, yielding a clearer sense of the abuse allegedly inflicted by the once-powerful movie producer.

Actress Melissa Sagemiller has now told HuffPost that she experienced Weinstein’s behavior firsthand in the summer of 2000, when she filmed “Get Over It.”

It was Sagemiller’s second movie, a contemporary teen comedy based on “A Midsummer Night’s Dream,” following the thriller “Soul Survivors.” The production, in her own words, was “star-studded.” Her colleagues included Kirsten Dunst, Ben Foster, Sisqó, Zoe Saldana, Mila Kunis, Shane West, Colin Hanks, Martin Short, Ed Begley Jr., Swoosie Kurtz and Carmen Electra.

Miramax, the studio that Weinstein managed at the time, distributed the film, which meant Weinstein floated around the set throughout the two-month shoot. Sagemiller said that Weinstein, who was then married to his onetime assistant, made three separate advances toward her, all uninvited. The first incident allegedly occurred during a lunch meeting arranged by Weinstein’s assistant. At a later date, Sagemiller said he attempted to coax her into his hotel room, supposedly to “discuss the script.” She also described an episode after the movie wrapped, in which Weinstein ordered airport personnel to deliver her to his private plane, despite her protests and separately scheduled flight.

At the time, Sagemiller wasn’t completely silent about the ordeal, though she was encouraged not to formally speak out. (She suspects Weinstein left Dunst and Kunis alone because they were underage at the time.)

“I was definitely talking about it when we would go out with the cast because I was trying to warn the other girls, and I was trying to be tough about it and make a joke about it,” she said. “I will definitely say that the whole atmosphere with my agents there at the time, and with everyone in the business, including his producing partner, who was a woman, was like, ‘Don’t cause any trouble. Don’t say anything. You’re not going to be that girl because it will definitely hurt your career. This is Harvey. Harvey’s Harvey. Just don’t pay attention to him, ignore it, just move on.’ I was never told, ‘Are you OK? Do you want to say anything? Do you want to report this?’ Nothing like that. It was just, ‘That’s Harvey.’”

Weinstein’s licentious activity has been extensively covered over the past week. After The New York Times and The New Yorker published separate investigations into the years-long allegations lodged against the mogul, actresses like Cara Delevingne and Kate Beckinsale have told their own stories via social media.

Below is Sagemiller’s account of Weinstein’s behavior as it progressed throughout filming. She spoke to us by phone on Thursday; we have edited and condensed her quotes slightly to ensure clarity.

“I just think it’s so widespread,” the actress said. “It’s crazy. And it’s not just Harvey. It’s so many people in the industry. You start talking, and then another actress will go, ‘Oh yeah, I had that happen to me.’ I think this is a very important, interesting time.”

1. The lunch

At the time, I was 24. We were shooting in Toronto, and I think right after shooting started, I was called by one of his assistants — a woman, as always — saying, “Harvey wants to have lunch with you” [...] which I was actually even sort of excited about. I thought, “Oh, wow, the head of Miramax wants to take me to lunch ― great!” It was my second big film that I was doing. No one really warned me that much. They might have said, “Oh, he’s a little frisky,” but no one warned me the extent of what I was about to encounter.

So I go to lunch. I will say I was prepped in that I’d heard he likes his leading ladies — that’s sort of the extent. It obviously gives you a little something, like, “OK, I know what I’m walking into.”

The lunch was fine, although he was pretty inappropriate in terms of just being very flirty and asking me what I like to do and what kind of guys I like to date. It did become personal. Then he took me to a bookstore and proceeded to ask me, did I like literature? I was an English major at the University of Virginia. “Great, I’m going to buy you every Fitzgerald book in the bookstore, and I’m going to sign it to you, especially ‘The Last Tycoon’ because I am the last tycoon, and I’m actually about to produce the film, and it’s all about me, and you’re an English major — you’re so smart.”

I’m a city girl — I know how to handle myself. I’m tough. I was like, “OK, Harvey.” I gave him a lot of shit. I was always quick with a response, and I was quick to deflect because I figured out really quickly what kind of guy I thought he was.

2. The hotel room

The next incident that happened was further into the production. I was called by another assistant of his asking me to go to his hotel room. It’s like the Ashley Judd situation. He wanted to discuss the script. I was like, “I really don’t feel comfortable with this. Can we meet on the set tomorrow? In my trailer? Whatever. I just don’t really understand why I have to go to his room.” I was told, “It’s not going to be a long meeting.”

This is the horror of it all: You have another woman orchestrating this, knowing full well what is going to happen.

So then the assistant said, “The script has all these changes that he needs to discuss with you. It’s very important.” I remember talking to my boyfriend at the time on the phone, being like, “I can’t believe I have to do this. I don’t want to do this. I don’t have a good feeling about this, and I know what’s going to happen.” I was trying to be tough about it.

Anyway, I went to his room. Immediately he had drinks. The script was on the kitchen counter. He was in his robe. He’s like, “Would you give me a massage?” The whole thing. I said, “Harvey, I’m here to discuss the script. I’m not going to give you a massage or any of that.” And the banter went back and forth. He’s like, “I love you. You’re so fiery, you’re so smart. No one can give you shit, Sagemiller.” I’m like, “Exactly right.” But he just wouldn’t stop. I said, “I’m going to have to leave — we were supposed to discuss the script.” I just remember him saying, “Ah, I have to take a shower; I just went to the gym.” I don’t even know. It was so gross.

He said, “Well, you’re not going to leave until you kiss me.” I remember that’s when it turned from “Oh, ha ha, I can handle this guy” to “Well, OK, he’s blocking the door, sort of” — he’d walked over and put his hand on the door. It was just one of those things where I was like, “Really?” He just wouldn’t stop. It was relentless. And then he said, “Well, Renée did it and Charlize did it and this other actress did it. Don’t you want your career to be more than just this little teen film?” I said, “No, I’m not interested, thank you very much.” He said, “Well, you can’t leave until you kiss me.” He literally would not let me leave. I said fine and kissed him on the lips. He sort of held my head and made me kiss him, and then he’s like, “OK, you can go now. That’s all I wanted. Just do what I say and you can get your way.”

He finally opened the door so I could leave. I remember sitting in that elevator. He was so disgusting. He was taking Accutane at the time, and his skin was peeling all over this face. His lips were peeling. He was like Jabba the Hutt. He was like a lizard that was molting. It was so disgusting. […] I know that women have had much worse.

3. The airplane

Cut to the wrap party. He’d already gotten some other girl that he had given this small number of lines to and was apparently sleeping with, according to the rumor mill on the movie. So he started to leave me alone and not pursue me as much, until the wrap party comes around.

I had to come over and say, “Thank you for the movie.” He said, “Well, you’re coming back on my plane.” I said, “Harvey, I’m totally cool. I’ve got my own flight. Thank you so much for the offer, but I’m good. I’m good.” He’s like, “No, no, no, you’re taking my plane. It’s fine, I’ll arrange it. It’s all arranged. It’s arranged already.”

So then I ran out the door of the party and called my agent at the time. I said, “Do not take me off the flight I’m on. No matter who calls, do not cancel this flight that I have. It’s my separate flight from Toronto.”

The party ended and I went back to the hotel. I woke up and left the hotel an hour earlier than I was supposed to. My flight was at, like, 10 a.m., and I left the hotel at 7:30 a.m. That way, I wouldn’t see his assistant, I wouldn’t see Harvey, I wouldn’t see anyone.

I checked my bag, I went through security — this is pre-9/11, mind you — and I’m waiting to board at the gate of the flight when, all of a sudden, over the loudspeaker, I hear, “Melissa Sagemiller, please report to the security desk immediately. Melissa Sagemiller, please pick up the white phone at the security desk immediately.”

So I’m like, “Wait, what? Did someone have a heart attack?” You’re just thinking about all of these horrible scenarios. I run to the security desk down the hall, and it’s his assistant again. “Melissa? We’ve gotten your bags off the plane. The car is out front. Get in the car.” It was just so incredible. I started laughing. I said, “What are you talking about? You got my bags?” She’s like, “Yes, Harvey’s insistent. Please get in the car. Just please get in the car.”

They’d kidnapped my bags at this point, so I was just like, “Fine, you win, motherfucker.” So I left the airport, went out to the top level where the car was, got in the car. They raced me to the private-plane runway where there were other actors on the plane. Sisqó was on it, and Shane West was on it. Thank God. If I had walked in there and it was just him, I don’t know. I would have had to run away because that’s horrendous. I think I even asked at the time, “Are there other people on this plane? I’m not going alone.” [The assistant] said, “There are other actors on this plane.”

So I get on the plane, I walk up and I go, “Harvey, you motherfucker.” He’s just sitting there. He pats his hand on the seat next to him, and he’s like, “See, Melissa, you can’t say no to me. I always get what I want.” He wanted me on this plane, and he wanted me somewhere where I couldn’t go anywhere. And he just wanted to eff with me. He just wanted to fuck with my head. [...]

It was a short flight, from Toronto to New York. Shane and I were talking; we were friendly, and I stuck by him. I’m sure I had told him Harvey’s stories. [...]

I don’t think I’ve interacted with [Harvey] that much because none of the other movies I did were Miramax. […] And then I crossed over and did mostly television, so I didn’t have to see him. [...]

If my manager called me tomorrow and said, “Actually, I remember there was this movie you were up for, and now that I’m thinking back on it, maybe [rebuffing Weinstein is] why you didn’t get it,” I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

mayim bialik thing is utterly bizarre and wrong. wtf.

Can y'all post shorter excerpts, please?

melissa sagemiller is an excellent storyteller! worth the read.

so many relatable moments in there. the condescension of unrelenting flattery*, the blocking of the door, the call on the white phone. jfc all the work this woman had to do to get away from this dude and he kept pursuing.

*this is not "hey cool skirt" or "dig your hair!" it's "you're so smart, you're so beautiful, etc etc etc" to the degree that it couldn't possibly be genuine, until it feels like paint-by-numbers flattery, which gets scary because it means they think they are buttering you up but they're getting nowhere and you need to develop a safe escape plan :(

now i am going to google her to see who she is, i have no idea.

Yeah nomar, there’s these things called links, man

i remembered her from the film Soul Survivors, which was a not-good film. but i do remember that she and Eliza Dushku were better than the film deserved.

the pattern is so obvious here, i suspect there are so many more and like Melissa Sagemiller, they're trying to get their stories out and getting them down right. so much anger and relief at releasing it in these pieces.

yeah i kinda thought the whole thing was worth reading i guess idk...

Oh I read the whole thing I just wanted to pile on

Anyway the company’s doomed

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/the-weinstein-company-may-be-sold-or-shut-down-entirely.html

the part about getting to the airport and then getting the call over the intercom that was like straight out of a horror movie holy crap

what strikes me again is how many people were involved in setting this up, even in the face of protests and discomfort and people literally trying to escape on airplanes!

Hell, he’s almost as bad as Bryan Singer.

My heart started racing at certain points of sagemiller's story

it was an excellent soberly-written (minimal hyperbole/jokes) detailed explanation. i enjoyed reading it and identified with a lot of the details.

I definitely recognize the way organizational culture plays into it. You arrive in your first internship or whatever and you see the people around you behaving in a certain way regarding a boss and it seems off but it's not your place to raise it. Eventually you either play the game and get absorbed into the culture or you leave. Not that I've ever worked somewhere on Weinstein level of bad but I can see how the dynamic plays out with a bad boss.

Is the Singer stuff confirmed? I remember that big lawsuit against him being dismissed when he had proof that the accuser's story didn't line up with a timeline or something, but I saw on Wikipedia there were some other accusations that sounded a bit iffy

gives me the Louis B Mayer chills

Someone mentioned upthread or elsewhere that if there was ever a time for Corey Feldman to name names, it’s now ... same with the Singer stuff
I would hope that seeing all these women share their stories & letting themselves be named might give victims of other abuses some hope idk

There’s so many known secrets that have caused so many people so much pain

Just do what I say and you can get your way.

That’s the most interesting thing about this for me as a social science dabbler. I’ve been thinking about how this is fortunately absolutely not part of the corporate culture where I work, never has been, but I’ve certainly heard of other government offices, research shops, and we all know about military units where this kind of shit festers.

At least in most of the public sector, inspectors general and employee ombudsman offices are mandated - so this kind of casting couch shit doesn’t last long, if it’s reported. I realize that’s a big if.

That was an xp to man alive

now i am going to google her to see who she is, i have no idea.

In a movie with Mika Kunis and Kirsten Dunst when she resisted...

more and more

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979384/Eva-Green-managed-escape-Harvey-Weinstein.html

aye but use other sources plz

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/13/russell-moore-de-niro-series-weinstein-company-scrapped-amazon/

In a movie with Mika Kunis and Kirsten Dunst when she resisted...

iirc she mentioned they were underage in the thing posted above?

The guy has principles after all.

I mean ... what confirmation do you need re: Singer? Same as Weinstein, he’s a powerful. Nothing ever ends up on an official record, there’s just a mounting body of anecdotes that eventually snowball into an irrefutable awareness of behaviors r. And I *know* people who, first hand, report on Singer. Like Weinstein or Cosby or Ailes, nobody saw anything too damning, nothing that can’t be waved away away by a superpowered legal team, and there are always implied to be credibility problems with the people stepping forward.