Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

The cynicism of tweets like that is exactly why I still slightly mistrust the "shitty media men" list -- 95% of the women putting men on the list probably have legit reasons but if the document was so easy for anyone to add anyone to, and without context, etc. As Henwood points out, he doesn't even know what the charge is, so it's pretty hard for him to explain/defend/apologize/whatever is warranted.

also agree about Kriss's apology. A straight apology is all that was called for, no "explanation."

Amazes me that none of these people have learned from others' mistakes re: public statements. The first, brief paragraph in Kriss' post would've sufficed. Totally unnecessary & counterproductive to go into detail. I really don't get it. You apologize if necessary, then shut up.

Kriss responded to it, but didn’t exactly help himself with all the extra bits, did he

The actual details are... appalling

Dude is a serious piece of shit

The cynicism of tweets like that is exactly why I still slightly mistrust the "shitty media men" list -- 95% of the women putting men on the list probably have legit reasons but if the document was so easy for anyone to add anyone to, and without context, etc.

the spreadsheet existed as a living document for like only 12 hours; it was meant to be useful for women, not a court of public opinion

i guess what i’m trying to say is it doesn’t matter if you “mistrust” it

Only guy that's been accused of sexual assault & kept his statement/denial short that I can think of is James Deen.

i guess what i’m trying to say is it doesn’t matter if you “mistrust” it

that's true, because no one with a brain should be thinking about it

thanks morbs, i think it's actually worth thinking about how women can make themselves and each other aware of abusers, but no, you're right

Won't link until I find it somewhere other than copy/pasted to /pol but tldr is he coerces her into drinking, ignoress protests and kisses/gropes her, and my favorite part brags about his 'big fucking house' that he'll inherit when his parents die

i see, a blacklist that could contain groundless character assassination is now "meant to be useful"

get me outta this fucking century

lmao ok dude

fwiw Sam Kriss struck me as kind of a POS in his podcast appearances and in his writing, which I also just didn't think was very good or smart.

no, you're right, any anonymous "document" must be believed 100%

xp

morbs i am ESPECIALLY not saying that

though i guess i understand where you got the idea

i... give up?

Alex Press wrote about this

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/10/16/16482800/harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-workplace

that's a good piece

I thought Jia Talentino's piece on the New Yorker site was good too.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-whisper-network-after-harvey-weinstein-and-shitty-media-men

Anyway, afaik (1) no actual host of Chapo is on a "shitty media men" list or has been rumored to be (2) there are no standing allegations against a host of Chapo, (3) no Chapo host has said anything shitty, or, afaict, anything at all about the Kriss allegations (and I don't really think they are required to do so or even should). I guess Kriss is sort of a "Chapo universe" guy but he's not part of the podcast, and I think it's kind of shitty to tie his behavior to them.

I mean this is also a "dirtbag left" thread so it's fair play but I did think the "waiting to find out which of them is a serial abuser" comment was a little beyond the pale

some ppl are creeping precariously close to "all men are guilty"

you seem to believe this morbs

it seems more like "the Bernie wing is guilty" to me

there are a couple sentences in that nyer piece that... don't read great to me

In dirtbag-left-adjacent news on a related subject, @CApuffin's accounts of what went down in DSA-LA and their systemic failure to deal with it is much more troublesome to me than the Kriss thing is

Been predictably ugly since the initial statement (on pastebin and easily findable if you are on twitter) and SK's non-apology (the guy is now losing thousands of followers) were released. All that theory can just go to the bin when the basics are nowhere to be found.

One of his female friends have had to leave twitter due to the abuse she has been getting by just being associated with SK. Questions are now being asked around whether Momentum have any procedures to deal with abusers too (SK being a member). Expect this one to run on and on around new-ish UK left media and certain sections of the left - with hopefully something good coming out of this. xps

The Chapo with the closest Kriss association is Amber (the podcast that stopped after a few eps). I think the podcast does need to do an episode on abuses on the left - this, the LA DSA harassment allegations, their Cosby tweet, etc.. They've tackled 'woke lib' creeps before, they should acknowledge it in their own backyard too.

Kriss's conduct was vile top to bottom and the bragging about his family's wealth makes me think of other privileged leftists who went bad later on (ala Hitchens).

Expect this one to run on and on around new-ish UK left media and certain sections of the left - with hopefully something good coming out of this.

God, I hope so. Abuse and harassment in left orgs is a *massive* problem that needs to be convincingly dealt with everywhere.

here's the full story, as i mentioned before it's pretty vile

https://www.facebook.com/notes/monitoring-the-lefts-support-for-r-pe-culture/metoo-and-sam-kriss/1518056408275666/

Yeah.

On the left in the UK this all ties back to cover up of abuses around SWP - many of those on the anarcho left fighting the SWP had no time for SK at all. As did many really but SK did occupy this curious middle ground between far-left and Guardian left.

(jepsen is a/the woman who brought the LA DSA sexual harassment allegations)

Kblocki‏ @kblocki 28m28 minutes ago
More
Okay Sarge, but wrong response for a couple of reasons. Your point isn't technically wrong, but doesn't absolve the left because it's an...
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 1 Retweet Like
Kblocki‏ @kblocki 27m27 minutes ago
More
Issue everywhere else. Second, it's a unique issue on the left because so many leftist women/men are willing to defend/overlook because...
1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
Reply 1 Retweet 1 Like 1
Kblocki‏ @kblocki 24m24 minutes ago
More
Of other percieved good qualities (Chapo Trap House) or as you point out (it's a problem everywhere so why are we getting called out) or...
1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
Reply 1 Retweet 1 Like 1
Kblocki‏ @kblocki 23m23 minutes ago
More
It's just dismissed as HRC delusion or relitigating and ignored as an issue.
1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
Reply 1 Retweet 1 Like 1
crawly rage jepsen‏ @CApuffin 22m22 minutes ago
More
This is really disgusting. I'm a leftist woman & men across the political spectrum have been horrible to me.
3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 3 Retweet Like
crawly rage jepsen‏ @CApuffin 20m20 minutes ago
More
Don't you dare use my harassment to denigrate left politics as a whole-so many womn are leftists and fighting this.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 1 Retweet Like

Don't you dare use my harassment to vilify left politics as a whole. Liberal institutions are horrible to harassment reporters too.

— crawly rage jepsen (@CApuffin) October 17, 2017

It's more disappointing in leftist men, but the left provides a better framework for fixing these problems than liberalism.

— crawly rage jepsen (@CApuffin) October 17, 2017

Also my abusive ex loved second wave feminism and hated Chapo.

— crawly rage jepsen (@CApuffin) October 17, 2017

I'm not convinced he's any kind of left really and that big house comment appears to confirm that, but he's a guy who hit on an online persona that worked very well for him for a while. You always get the sense there's an ageing reactionary lurking within self-styled bad boys of the British intellectual left and there's been a nasty misogynistic tone to a lot of Kriss's posturing.

The linked story is horrible and worse than I would have expected but he's always come across as transparently loving the approval he got from a crowd of gross enablers.

as others have already said more eloquently than me, the left has the burden/responsibility to be/do better on these things since it's the left that wants to replace the existing order.

I'm suspicious of the move some have made to say that [x dirtbag they don't like] "isn't really left", as though having left-wing politics is some sort of cleansing property. (I don't think that's what you were arguing Matt but I have seen it elsewhere)

Yeah he might be but it's difficult to adequately judge motivations when someone is so transparently egotistical and self promoting, and Britain has had a lot of similar figures making a left-right journey over the years.

Whether he's left wing or not isnt especially relevant here except that he's already being used to attack left-wing feminists.

So when is Taibbi going to be called our & disgraced, getting impatient here

out*

what, on ilx or in the public sphere?

Public sphere obv

Forced to resign, or get fired by Jann. Then again he’s selling RS and might feel inclined to keep Taibbi as he’s the only prominent political writer they have atm

That “which Chapo will be next” thing was actually posted by an alt-right/fake rose acct, wasn’t it?

since I'm sure you were all dying to know how they were going to address all this on the show, Amber opened the latest premium ep by saying a) she vetoed doing a whole episode on issues of sexual assault due primarily to the hosts' gender imbalance and the fact that she didn't want to talk about rape in her day job at a comedy podcast, and b) they donated $10k to Victim Rights Law Center. hardly the most comprehensive response but I can think of plenty worse tbh

and then later matt started to say that trump had down's syndrome but caught himself after saying 'down's' and switched to saying 'brain damaged' instead

swings and roundabouts!

god's working on all of us

I noted Tim Faust self-correcting to say pregnant "people" as opposed to "women" on his last appearance - I guess people were being snarky with him about it so he went on twitter shortly afterwards to say "hey it's a small effort and it hurts no one, fuck off"