The long overdue _Blade Runner_ thread

Per forced dullardry, I really did watch it as a sort of waking nightmare, just people left behind in this worthless world, where there's no longer a huge hurry to do much of anything but wait out the clock (which is sort of the replicant's life right there).

A couple of other details I loved. Gosling lowering his gaze as he passes his (antagonistic) co-workers, or him asking Harrison Ford if the dog is real and Ford being all "I don't know, ask the dog." Which really gets to the crux of the film's whole real/not real internal dialectic. Is it being born that makes you real? Having kids? Having a "soul?" Was the VR AI "real"? Also, it's pretty well implied that *all* of the replicants have some degree of free will, so what is it that keeps them in line in the first place? Is it just a sort of fatalism? Lack of ambition? These are the kinds of ambiguities that keep me intrigued rather than having me cry "plot hole."

Dr. Badger is one of the best characters in the film. He could get you a horse.

btw, on second viewing, if people really care about the technical replicant lifespan junk: the serial number on Rachel’s bones begins with N7, meaning she was a Nexus 7

technical nerdery like that is all fun for fandom obsession but doesn’t do anything in service of an enjoyable plot, but that should stop people from acting like it’s a plot hole

the other thing that was really obvious after rewatching was the JOI marketing: “Does what you want” and “Says what you want”. She was never a person as much as we want to think she’s experiencing something great and human, especially in the rain scene. She’s echoing all of th insecurities K has voiced back at him in a comforting way. I also wondered why I blanked on the musical cue the first time — the little announcement ringtone for Joi is Prokofiev’s Peter and the Wolf

Yeah, I caught that (referenced in my link, below, too). But before that, there's a lot going on with JOI. Like her self-sacrifice at the end, is she doing that because it's what she wants, or ... what he wants. There's also the implication that she learns and evolves as an AI, too, and that after spending long enough with a owner/user, she more or less becomes unique. Which is to say, more human. But yeah, her empathy/sympathy ... was she playing a role, as programmed, or ever anything more than that? She's not a person, but was her reaction to K making her more human, per the rain scene, just for his benefit?

I just read Anthony Lane's review, and props to him if he was, unaided, able to figure out that the robot-delivered interrogation Gosling gets requires him to quote back broken up bits from Nabokov's "Pale Fire." A book that, obviously not coincidentally, Gosling has in his apartment and his AI offers to read even though, by his own observation, she doesn't like it. I'm not smart enough to parse what this may or may not mean, but this person took a stab:

https://medium.com/@mariabustillos/blade-runner-2049-is-revealed-through-the-novel-pale-fire-dd9f04768439

More data, more questions, via Gosling:

The Baseline was always a scene to me that held the key to understanding K. I wasn't sure what that key was during the preparation period of the film. In the script, the character was meant to read a small passage from Nabokov's Pale Fire, but there wasn't any insight as to why.

In order to better understand the meaning of the passage and to give it a personal meaning, I enlisted the help of a wonderful vocal coach named Natsuko Ohama. She suggested a technique called 'Dropping In.' In this technique, you explore the meaning of each word of the text by exhausting every conceivable context in which the would could be used.

The process is very long and repetitive, but it has a trance-inducing effect that can be very powerful and unsettling. I felt that if that technique were extrapolated into K's experience, it could be used to penetrate his psyche. I believed we could learn through a process of psychological erosion what his true emotional state was.

I was very grateful to Denis for incorporating it into the film, because it unlocked my understanding of K, but also provided insight into the state of mind of those who would force this burden upon him."

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Going to see this tomorrow. Last thing I watched at the cinema I think was The Thing (prequel).

Guy who I'm going with is the biggest BR fan on this planet, so can't wait for his ultra sonic tantrum in the car journey afterwards (based on info from this thread)

He'll love it.

A book that, obviously not coincidentally, Gosling has in his apartment and his AI offers to read even though, by his own observation, she doesn't like it.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, October 22, 2017

The Bustillos piece is way too literal to work and Pale Fire "reveals" nothing imo, but it does offer an interesting lens, and obviously significant. It's in Joshi's office as well.

re phones mentioned upthread, his digital girlfriend doubles as a phone so wtf

actually I found this to be the single most affecting scene in the moving

*movie

Saw this last night. Loved it.

There are some minor points I could complain about, but it would be nitpicking. The visuals, the sound, the deep world that they created for this movie were amazing. This is why I go to the movies.

well, mk2 stayed awake throughout, and talked about it all the way home.
said he loved it.
i'd call that a much better result than i expected.
i thought it was just wonderful, and a really good way to continue the storyline from the original.

What a grand lark to STILL NOT TELL US FOR SURE if Deck is robo-Deck or not. A brilliant wheeze that, i bet Hampton Fancher was pissing himself.

It was everything I wanted it to be without knowing it. I even liked Hans Zimmer's contributions for once – much like Villeneuve himself, Zimmer and Wallfisch struck an ideal balance between homage, imitation and continuation. And Fancher managed to augur a third instalment without cheapening the plot. I'm glad I temporarily overcame my irrational, newfound – well, it's only been ten years or so… – aversion toward movies and TV series in general.

yeah i haven't been to a movie in years, that probably helped, even if my showing did get dumped in the 'little theater' rather than the big room where i saw it

Theater sound mixing is so weird now -- the second place I saw the film was way too loud, and the bass crossover was off so dialogue almost got lost in the rumble at times, but there were certain parts where the spatial mix was amazing. The scene where K's in the Las Vegas street and hears the piano was actually obvious! In my first viewing you couldn't quite hear the piano, even when he went inside and could hear Deckard playing upstairs.

There were also some parts where there was music playing from a source in the background and it really sounded as if it was coming from the corner behind the characters.

The transition scenes in the car were extra BWAAAAAAM

yeah, I actually wonder how much my enjoyment of this movie is due to seeing it on in an Imax theater which had a very good (and very loud) sound system.

A significant part of it, I'm sure, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's vision and sound, after all…

The Dolby cinema site doesn't have it listed, but the theater I saw it in that second time has Dolby Atmos, if that means a specific audio mix

I only wish I was at one of the theaters that sprays rain and smog at you. Now that's immersion!

Thank God odour simulators are still decades away.

I have very bad news for you
http://www.cj4dx.com/aboutus/aboutus.php

What a grand lark to STILL NOT TELL US FOR SURE if Deck is robo-Deck or not

yeah, this was a definite part of the discussion on the way home as i too was trying to figure out if this had actually been revealed ..

I have very bad news for you
http://www.cj4dx.com/aboutus/aboutus.php

― mh, Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:12 PM

Oh no.

What a grand lark to STILL NOT TELL US FOR SURE if Deck is robo-Deck or not

yeah, this was a definite part of the discussion on the way home as i too was trying to figure out if this had actually been revealed ..

― mark e, Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:13 PM

Not only that, but the mystery of the 'miracle' is further deepened by our inability to determine whether Deckard is or isn't a replicant. Well played, Mr. Fancher.

I wonder if they tried to bring david peoples back also? hes old but actually younger than fancher

oh, and i know its a small thing,
but i loved that some of the adverts still had the same vocals that have been sampled by various industrial/electronica bands ('a new world' etc)

incredibly obvious, but I appreciated the reuse of the "Tears in the Rain" song from the original

Roy Batty dying in the rain, K dying in the snow

also the thing he does several times during the film where he looks down at his hand, waves it and turns it over, is the same thing the daughter does in the holographic falling snow inside her home

And the same thing the AI girlfriend does in the rain.

did you ever look at your hand, man? like really look at it?

Robots are obsessed with precipitation, for obvious reasons.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cYD9LtTFMPk/maxresdefault.jpg

I still get a laugh every day thinking about the scene where Deckard locks the door behind him and K runs through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man. That could have been out of a Buster Keaton movie, or Young Frankenstein.

What a grand lark to STILL NOT TELL US FOR SURE if Deck is robo-Deck or not. A brilliant wheeze that, i bet Hampton Fancher was pissing himself.

― piscesx, Tuesday, October 24, 2017

anyone who bought a ticket looking for THE ANSWER TO THIS ANCIENT MYSTERY deserves exactly what they get

yeah loved this. Watching baseball right now so will post something more extensive tomorrow.

I loved this. Just loved being immersed in it (it's to the film's credit that I, a pregnant parent of a toddler who can barely sit down without desperately needing to go to sleep, did not begin to doze off). Perhaps flagged a bit in the last 20 mins or so.
From the first shot that was in (white smoggy) daylight it was kind of refreshing yet familiar. Gosling a bit too broody though? Like there's only a couple of glimpses of the impact of what he's finding.

https://www.facebook.com/WetaWorkshop/posts/10154685746932303

Weta behind the scenes building miniature BR 2049 sets

gosling appropriately affectless for the numbing existence his character leads but yes i kind of agree, if he's a Real Boy he sure doesn't show it very often

The donkey doesn’t show what it’s feeling in Au Hasard Balthazar very much either—and it’s maybe an over the top comparison but his character’s final moments struck me as similar.

That comparison makes sense and brings to mind Descartes' relevantly wrongheaded conception of animals as automata.

It all traces back to the Drunken Boat by Arthur Rimbaud. The protagonist of that poem is an outmoded piece of technology that wanders the Earth for decades past its expiration date. So are the replicants. I actually think they lifted parts of the original screenplay's dialogue directly from the poem.

Compare this stanza:

I know the skies bursting with lightning, and the waterspouts
And the surf and the currents; I know the evening,
And dawn as exalted as a flock of doves
And at times I have seen what man thought he saw!

with Batty's speech from the original:

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-Beams glitter in the dark
Near the Tannhäuser Gates.

Not to mention the 'sidereal archipelagos'. I'm not convinced, mind you, but you can add that to your dossier.

Hauer wrote those lines himself iirc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears_in_rain_monologue

that description of the Drunken Boat had me wracking my brain for when I'd seen a cartoon about a robot who helps throughout all of human civilisation. thought I was going mad. but it was a little story within Fargo s3.

Yeah, was going to say. "I can help!"

I finally got to see this last night. I had expected it to be good, but I'm very pleased to say that I think it's flat-out great. Sure, Villeneuve didn't craft a perfect movie, but then again, who does?
It's the first time that Gosling has impressed me as an actor - in particular, at the moment that the gigantic Joi addresses him as "Joe", and his head sinks as the last of his illusions evaporates.

CS-80-esque Vangelis-tribute sounds were terrific

Yes. There's a soundtrack-making-of on YouTube, in which Wallfisch is filmed recording a part with Zimmer's CS-80, and expertly using the pitch ribbon to achieve those trademark Vangelis slides.

Tons of great stuff here, it goes deep:

https://www.provideocoalition.com/AOTC-Bladerunner-2049

planning to attend on the 18th, will report DV's remarks

https://www.moma.org/calendar/events/3690?locale=en