IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

Good points.

The Ed Sullivan thing -

One of the reasons I feel old is because I remember the big deal made about the 20th anniversary of the Beatles appearing on Ed Sullivan. So by the time this video appeared, I was more than aware of Ed Sullivan, Topo Gigio, Señor Wences, Jackie Mason, and "Let's Spend Some Time Together."

Weird to think that if they did that video today, they'd just CGI Ed Sullivan in there somehow, and miss out on having him standing on the side of the stage. (Or they could just do what the Rutles did 40 years ago.)

(40 years since the Rutles! Good grief!)

I like that he's having fun with the same advice-giving voice he did so seriously in "Vienna" and "James" and so on.

Listened to this whole album a lot, but I'm gonna be straight with you, this was the track that spoke DIRECTLY to 6th grade me. It gives me goosebumps even now.

"Listen, boy" -- I'm listening, Billy!

I loved Glass Houses but never really grasped the cynicism. This I grasped. And craved. A grownup man who'd had a girlfriend telling me, look, take it from me, just be yourself and be a good guy and it's gonna work out -- I mean "not automatically a certain guarantee," but in the long run, this is how you do it. Of course you heard this from a lot of people, but from Billy Joel I BELIEVED IT.

Hadn't connected it to "Sleeping..." but somewhere upthread it occurred to me to read it as a retraction of "Just The Way You Are," specifically the "unspoken passion" so thoroughly dismembered by Veg. As on "The Stranger," Billy's advice-giving is much easier to take with him painting himself as "a man who's made mistakes" than when he's just telling James off for not being as cool as him.

I wonder how this played for Elizabeth Weber - was it like, "oh so NOW this has occurred to him"?

"This Night": A bit labored, like the opposite side of the doo-wop coin from "The Longest Time", but not bad. Great use of Beethoven there, by far the best part of the track

"Tell Her About It": I used to roll my eyes at Billy's "take it from me" songs and still do a little bit at this one (though much more at a song that should be coming up soon). Feel like the dude has always been an old man ready to dole out advice. The melody here is undeniable though, and I have an inexplicable love of songs that change the key for the chorus, if it's done smoothly

weird that this was the biggest hit, it sounds totally unfamiliar to me (beyond being a bad Motown pastiche, which is def familiar)

man you are not even remotely sympathetic to Joel, eh?

i love the rhythm & consance of the T sounds in this line:

“Listen boy it’s not automatically a certain guarantee”

and the way it tumbles out so quickly

it’s very pleasing to me

This song is about emotional honesty and telling someone how you feel. I will be emotionally honest and tell you all about my feelings: I don't like this song. Never have.

Like Οὖτις I don't think it's even a good Motown pastiche. Plenty of Motown songs have bouncy melodies and joyful horns and straightforward messages, but none of them come off this leaden and labored and flat. Sorry.

Phil Collins' did this bit better, I hate to say it

man you are not even remotely sympathetic to Joel, eh?

I find his hammy self-deprecation (which *really* comes across in the videos) charming, but it masks a lot of anger and bitterness which creeps through the cracks in unattractive ways.

Phil Collins' did this bit better, I hate to say it

Absolutely agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Ea5RtNwa0

Dave Gruber Allen playing some phat basslines there

I like it more today than I did last week but it was never on the radio enough for me to develop feelings for it one way or another.

omg this CLOBBERS collins's efforts in this vein. it's not even close to my favorite song on the album but this is soooo much more fun and energetic. agreed about the tumbling-out of "not automatically a certain guarantee," best part of the song imho.

man if "behind the lines" counts as this bit then yes phil collins feat. the earth wind and fire horns totally steamrolls over "tell her about it" or whatever

Doctor, I usually respect and share your taste but on this point we must part ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0Oect0nVQ

Uptown Girl opens side two with another joyous mega-hit, the album's second single and basis for its most giffable music video. Held to #3 in the US by "All Night Long" and "Islands in the Stream," it topped the charts in Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. It was his first time in all three markets; in the latter, while it was his only chart-topper, it held the spot for five weeks (blocking out "Say Say Say" and Paul Young's "Love of the Common People"). It became the UK's second-best-selling single of 1983 (behind "Karma Chameleon") and 19th-best-seller of the 1980s (below "Ghostbusters" and above "Ride on Time"). Again, I'm not sure how or whether these sales sort out between the 7" and the more appealing 12" single, which in this case offered another three older hits for late-comer fans.

https://img.discogs.com/Su2_WziA1uRSenzTEwyHVXOzPMA=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1215978-1293045351.jpeg.jpg

https://img.discogs.com/9r6ONild8uHrcad-BMFSVxee6ko=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3297523-1390186968-4408.jpeg.jpg

Predictably, this success gave rise to later covers, and in 2001, Westlife would get to #1 with their own, dreary and bland rendition. Ska and punk bands seem to relate to the song's underdog narrative, with Me First and the Gimme Gimmes and The Holophonics among the notable downtowners. The Shadows, apparently still a going concern in 1990, knocked out a generic instrumental version before packing it in; supposedly, genuine old-school Philly soulsters The Stylistics took a stab at it on their 2013 album Cover With The Stylistics, but I can't find that online.

can't knock this one, totally spot-on Frankie Lymon pastiche with hooks to spare

Held to #3 in the US by "All Night Long" and "Islands in the Stream,"

haha beaten by the Gibbs

I've warmed to this one too.

at it's core it has the classic Joelian underdog POV but it's all aspirational without a trace of sourness, and the vocal arrangement is great, kinda reminds me of the Raspberries (who were enamored of similar nostalgia exercises). and there's no fat on the track, no showy rhythmic switchups or aimless bridges, all the different little melodic bits are precisely arranged to flow smoothly.

ahhhhh i love this

so much of my childhood was endless hours singing this song into a hairbrush microphone in front of the mirror

i love the way the drums almost literally *crack* they’re so sharp

Can I just say how much I love the handclaps in this song? Because I really, really do.

Terrific key changes in this song, too -- from the home key for the opening chorus, it pivots to a new key based on the flatted fifth for the verses, then again to the flatted fourth for the bridge. Great songwriting.

yeah, it's pretty cleverly done, doesn't draw attention to itself

er, flatted THIRD for the bridge

We'll forgive you this time, Phil, but don't make such an egregious mistake ever again. We have standards here.

musically this is an incredible gem imho and possibly his greatest song of all. yeah it's a pastiche but almost every billy joel song is in some sense "in the style of" and it turns out he inhabits frankie valli's shoes so naturally it just feels like a billy joel song. so packed with energy and excitement in a short running time. when liberty's drums announce the hook around 2:05, now with stop-and-start drama, and the wash of background vocals takes center stage - - - that might be the most transcendent moment in his entire catalog, and from there to the end of the song it's just joy, joy, joy, "my UPtown giiiiiirl!" gives me goosebumps. i still basically stand by most of the following from five years ago:

(Billy) had this really convincing match-up between his own look-and-feel (tics, fashion, visual associations generally) and the material of his songs, which added up are like the ten-year story of a grouchy, alcoholic New Yorker with contempt for everyone and years in the trenches playing shitty house-pianist gigs and relentless touring to back it up. If he were a lesser songwriter that'd just leave him as a memorable grump with a predictable cult, but the thing is his songs were really really earwormy and he had a genuinely solid backing band, great producer, and somehow wedded all the baggage of his persona to something you would kind of relate to. Joel never casts himself as the sad-sack you're rooting for - he's the underdog you think of yourself being, who actually tells the boss off and skips town and rages against the phonies and hangs around in scuzzy alleyways with a saxophone because after so many Friday nights in this city, man, you get over trying to be in the coolest places at the coolest times. It just works as a package, and even if the songs had stayed as strong, the rest falls apart completely once he gets an MTV budget and a huge arena stage with a vast battleship of a piano.

So An Innocent Man is the last solid moment not just because it has his last amazing grab-bag of singles ("Uptown Girl" is in my top five for this poll), but because it completes the character arc: the boomer settles down, actually delivers on the claim way back in "Angry Young Man" that he's over it all (or the "got a new wife" narrator of "Italian Restaurant"), and nestles in with some well-delivered nostalgia. Would have been a perfect album to retire on - but of course you don't retire at age 35 with three top ten hits.

And Greatest Hits I & II is in this sense the perfect Joel album because it gets the whole sweep of that, but just jumbles up the order so it makes a consistent melange of bitterness, redeemed bitterness, righteous bitterness, bitterness hoping to be proved wrong, and trying to get into girls' pants. No wonder it's such great house-cleaning music (I was doing dishes to Joel just the other day).

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 19:25 (five years ago) Permalink

(...)

I think I may actually be swinging "Uptown Girl," god is it hook-laden and boy is it the perfect conclusion to my hastily sketched Billy Joel metanarrative above - - not only does he finally get the girl, he finally LIKES the girl, even though she is an uptown big-shot kind of girl, like he seems to have maybe gotten over his bullshit a little.

And I mean, Frankie Valli is awesome, why not make some more Four Seasons songs?

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 15:35 (five years ago) Permalink

agree that I don't think he has a song that tops this one (at least not so far, and I don't have high hopes for what comes after)

• One of the reasons Billy gives for him and Elle Macpherson breaking up was him seeing a photo of the two of them together, and him thinking he looked like a little organ grinder's monkey, following her along the boardwalk. So with that said, apparently he got over that feeling.

• It's been edited out of the YouTube, but the intro to the video originally panned down to Billy in the garage office, watching MTV. And when it finally debuted on "Friday Night Videos" four weeks later, Billy was watching that vectored record needle sequence! Hey, it impressed me at the time.

• This album is just a lot of fun. I get most of my kicks from the sourpuss Billy, but I had forgotten about what a hoot this song is.

• Elton John never forgot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxiMVafp0mY

"She's been living in her white-bread world as long as anyone with hot blood can" is SUCH a great line. Very McCartney-esque. And "You know I can't afford to buy her pearls, but maybe someday when my ship comes in, she'll understand what kind of guy I've been and then I'll win" is quintessential Billy.

lool i giess i never read the lyrics
i always thought it was “as long as anyone with half a chance”

The key change in the last part is affecting and effective.

the wordless...sub-chorus (?) constitutes literally the best fifteen or so seconds of the entire billy joel catalog

I enjoy this more than I should, given what a hard time I have listening to Frankie Valli. Still, this song's legacy for me will always be The Simpsons.

Tom and the Freaky Trigger gang divided for and against. As usual some astute remarks in the comments: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/07/billy-joel-uptown-girl/comment-page-1/#comments

Oh, thanks for linking that! Popular entries always worth a reread, and the discussions can be a great parallel track (I guess sometimes overlapping) to ILX hivemind.

Very hard song to deny the appeal of, but out of all his catalog, it's also the song I am most sick of (even more than Piano Man). I used to love the hell out of it; nowadays I'm 50/50 to find it delightful or cloying. Depends on my mood

It's funny, listening to Valli tonight, I never would have noticed it except via Uptown Girl but the Four Seasons were classic victims of "wimpy early 60s recordings of rhythm sections" syndrome. Obviously their biggest records are stone cold classics, so this isn't a jab, but the extra jolt of energy you get with Liberty's whip-crack drums (and Ramone's 70s-finding-its-way-to-the-80s production savvy) really transforms the sound. I mean it's basically the same steady stomp as on "Sherry," the same "open with a drum flourish" approach as "Walk Like a Man," but so, so different.

The Four Seasons might also be unusual in terms of this album's lineup of pastiches in that they'd had a hit comparatively recently, with "December, 1963," which topped the charts while Billy's career was at rock bottom, in between Streetlife Serenade and Turnstiles. So really it's not so shocking that one could have a hit with this stuff in 1983, though I'm sure it still startled Valli. Perhaps this was the impetus for the first Four Seasons studio LP since 1977, 1985's Streetfighter, but you'd never guess it from the title track and its pathetic video - Valli goes synthpop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhSTo9bq0g

I guess these lyrics are sorta like "Uptown Girl," if it sucked:

I know how to jump over rooftops
I know how to wire a car
I know how to deal with people on the street
That's not where you are

You come from a special place
A place I don't quite understand
Baby I would change the world for you
But I can't change who I am

Guess I’ve always heard the line as “As long as anyone can hop the can” (picturing an Oscar The Grouch type garbage can).

i like that better

I listened to this like 4 times yesterday, it is great. It would top my (admittedly short) list of good Billy Joel songs.

I mixed up Valli w Lymon upthread a ways, my bad

catching up:

"Easy Money" - really good songwriting! to the point where I'd like to hear an actual soul singer with a little better chops and subtlety cover it, Billy as always a little overblown in the delivery, but didn't know this one, one of the better new discoveries

"Innocent Man" - like the chorus, a little lukewarm on the verses

"The Longest Time" - pretty goddamn incredible, total pastiche that meets the level of the stuff it's aping...kinda crazy in terms of arrangements in the middle of the glossy high-80s production era, it's so minimal, claps, bassline, and some slight brushed drums...

"This Night" - get this phony, gloppy Sha-Na-Na shit outta here bruh

"Tell Her About It" - kinda reminds me of the music that might play in a party scene in Police Academy or something, this type of thin digital piano "rock n' roll" with overcooked horns was so prevalent in the 80s

"Uptown Girl" - you just can't argue with some songs, so I'm not gonna....I'm sure the A&R dude shit his pleated slacks when he heard this. His voice is interesting, sounds almost artificially high -- i wonder if they did the old trick where they slow the tape machine a half or whole step down while recording, then playback at 30 ips

That's what I thought happened.

yeah I mean Uptown Girl is obv ubiquitous and I have heard it in the wild for decades, but I'm not sure I ever even pegged it as a Joel song! maybe I thought it was Huey Lewis or something. it doesn't even sound like him, IMO - is it all just Valli-aping? did he ever sing high like this again?

Huey's allright but this song is way out of his league