Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

RL Stephens has a good thread about twitter vs real-life work

R.L. Stephens
@RLisDead

The base required to win elections is different than the base needed for transformative class struggle.

To win a US electoral campaign, you need to mobilize those who are already likely to vote (wealthier, whiter). Most poor ppl don't vote

Transformative class struggle is about building the capacity of the poor and dispossessed to not only win campaigns, but to lead society

It's not that it's impossible to do both electoral campaigns and transformative class struggle, it's that we can't conflate the two.

If you fight for a policy, are you doing it in a way that builds a base for transformative class struggle or just mobilizing likely voters?

I never read the eXile (or this spin-off book), is it accurate to say that parts of it were clearly fictional, liked Ames suggests? (and if so, were the fictional and non-fiction parts clearly demarcated, or did they play around with the ambiguity?)

scary baker
@meshuggeknight
·
2h
Replying to @RLisDead and @samseabornagain
Outside of finally winning elections, what's the mechanism for attaining state power for the base?

R.L. Stephens
@RLisDead
·
1h
the state is just a legitimizing apparatus, the real power is in motion elsewhere (landlord/tenant, boss/worker, debtor/debt owner, etc)

Without building power to directly challenge those underlying relations, then state power will be pretty useless for social transformation

scary baker @meshuggeknight

No, i get that, but how do you finally take control of the state apparatus that runs society without the legitimacy of elections

-
R.L. Stephens
@RLisDead

the state apparatus doesn't run society, it legitimizes dominance already in motion through various relations

but this isn't something that will be hammered out through twitter. i think organizing should prioritize challenging underlying relations

(Twitter convos suck at any other sharing aside form screencaps)

I never read the eXile (or this spin-off book), is it accurate to say that parts of it were clearly fictional, liked Ames suggests? (and if so, were the fictional and non-fiction parts clearly demarcated, or did they play around with the ambiguity?)

Parts were clearly fictional. Parts were straight-up, high-quality journalism. Parts were completely ambiguous. Ames, more than Taibbi, went out of his way to make himself look appalling. That was part of the schtick of the paper - it was designed to be outrageous and horrible - but it's impossible to neatly split 'Mark Ames the satirical creation' and 'Mark Ames the terrible person'. If 10% of it was true, it was still pretty unpleasant.

"pretty unpleasant"

jesus fucking christ

"if 10% of it was true" not referring specifically to the assault allegations but the general air of degradation.

I’m kinda how much we’re being haunted from 90s Gen X shittalking about politics.

I separate it from the more current dirtbag leftist tendency because the political aims are far diffierent(one actually has political aims, for one). The two styles are only superficially similar(they both can be snarky), which means that they get conflated online constantly, because social media obsessively foregrounds the most superficial connections possible.

90s nihilistic shitlording was more of a defensive cynicism, wasn’t it? Folks were all transgressive and snarking about Clinton Era shit because actually organizing to take power was a task discard decades back by folks who got burned or traumatized in the process. How many remember Suck.com, where the dominating vibe seemed to be hipster nihilism? eXile fits in that category, doesn’t it?

Gawker can sorta stand in a transition point, couldn’t it? You go from a snipey Gen X/Suck.com non-ideological stance to something which still had the mordant humor but more political aims(with HamNo, Pareene(sorta), J.E.B. Lund & more than a few others). Then Gawker gets taken out, leaves a vacuum, and Chapo is there to fill it.

I’m kinda wondering that post should begin with

Haha: the letters jay eee bee get auto-replaced

Good ep, worth the wait.

I credit them for finding that excellent Atlantic piece, because it probably would have flown under my radar otherwise. What's great about it is not clear from the headline.

was just thinking about how much of a useful idiot one has to be at this point to still not realize that the entire CTH universe is propped up with russian propaganda $$$. Just because it's possible to anticipate an argument or constantly lampshade it with snark doesn't mean it's not true, buds ❤❤❤

waht

...?

was just thinking about how much of a useful idiot one has to be at this point to still not realize that the entire CTH universe is propped up with russian propaganda $$$. Just because it's possible to anticipate an argument or constantly lampshade it with snark doesn't mean it's not true, buds ❤❤❤

― Dan I., Wednesday, November 1, 2017 9:52 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're a catastrophically stupid person

catastrophic for whom?

himself, the state of discourse around politics in the u.s.

This may be one layer of irony too deep of an irony-poisoned show

Like, we fell thru the irony superstructure and have passed thru every level of the base, so we’ve taken up residence in the irony sub-basement

not everything you don't like is russia for the love of god

things that are russia according to libs with large social media presences in the u.s.: black lives matter, bernie sanders and his supporters, the catalan independence movement, racism and white supremacy in america etc.

useful idiot, you say

patreon is a russian front open your eyes

was just thinking about how much of a useful idiot one has to be at this point to still not realize that the entire CTH universe is propped up with russian propaganda $$$. Just because it's possible to anticipate an argument or constantly lampshade it with snark doesn't mean it's not true, buds ❤❤❤

― Dan I., Wednesday, November 1, 2017 9:52 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

correct the record troll

aren't one of you going to "ironically" call me a cuck?

what are you doing here, buddy?

resisting

that popular ironic ilx insult "cuck"

Ian D.

If the CTH Universe was propped up with Russian Money, Street Fight would be bragging about and doing waaaaaay more drugs.

Kratom by the kilo

well this has taken a turn

*wonders to self* What are people fighting about on the Chapo thread now?
*clicks*
"blinks*
*blinks again*
*clicks back, considering the void and the unknowable strangeness of man*

related note: just heard that apparently "liberal" is a bad word again--only this time it's being stigmatized by those on the left. If your goal is to make no one feel safe self-identifying with left-wing politics for fear of using the wrong moniker you're doing a great fucking job

where did you "hear" that, Lenny Letter?

I think we found a time traveler from February 2017.

Back in 2016 it was more common for tankies to accuse them of being a CIA front. Tables have turned I guess.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/76x4h3/cuck/?st=j9hbmpxz&sh=b0677581

Sheesh! Believe me, that was not at all cherry picked either

oh i think you're looking for a different thread: everybody on ilx complains about reddit

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5909751aebe912338a377961/16:9/w_1200,h_630,c_limit/Rothman-TheAmericans.jpg

Chapo Patreons #s 1 and 2

tbf dan most of the posts in that thread are by surkov

where did you "hear" that, Lenny Letter?

― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, November 1, 2017 1:29 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think we found a time traveler from February 2017.

― louise ck (milo z), Wednesday, November 1, 2017 1:30 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

How dyou you dyou, fyellow dyirtbags?

If your goal is to make no one feel safe self-identifying with left-wing politics for fear of using the wrong moniker you're doing a great fucking job

Dan, what are you anxious about?

we're already living it, man

welcome to the resistance, comrade

I think correct form is to make fun of them for not being able to make a podcast after a year and a half, not for being a Russian front.

^ I'm a truther in this regard—I think they do whole episodes that are so offensive that they tank them, then blame "technical" issues

like I guarantee you there's a whole Weinstein episode out there that so flagrantly violates the boundaries of good taste that it was easier to say "the computer ate it" than "we did 70 minutes of off-color rape jokes"

more likely they discard eps where they're blazed beyond comprehension

^ I'm a truther in this regard—I think they do whole episodes that are so offensive that they tank them, then blame "technical" issues

― it me, Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:27 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like I guarantee you there's a whole Weinstein episode out there that so flagrantly violates the boundaries of good taste that it was easier to say "the computer ate it" than "we did 70 minutes of off-color rape jokes"

― it me, Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:29 PM (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes. this definitely happened.