tHE aEROPLANE fLIES hIGH

During the original run of the Pumpkins, they maybe put out a small handful of tracks that were less than great, but most of the stuff they put out was gold.

The Zwan record could have been better, but there's a lot I like on it - 'Lyric' is a great song, 'Ride a Black Swan' too.

I'm not much into either of Corgan's solo LP's or Zeitgeist ... there's some neat songs in the Teargarden by Kaleidyscope stuff and love Oceania.

I generally think he's past his peak as a songwriter but Corgan's antics get on my wick these days.

'Declarations of Faith' is a good obe too!

'I of the Mourning' has always been a favourite, I love the new wave-y guitar sound on it. I remember a lot of people being down on MACHINA at the time, and it was frustrating because it isn't that bad a record. Same with Adore.

*one

i love Billy's description of the guitar sound on Machina: "Judas Priest plus Simple Minds." that really comes across in IOTM, especially the bass & sheet distortion + very 80s chorus...

lol, i love the transition between the cure and the pumpkins' versions of "a night like this" in that clip above. when it switches over it sounds like someone's subtly pushing their finger against a spinning record.

lol. also the transition between og "destination unknown" and their cover sounds like it's shifting into a shitty demo

I really love their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' ... I think the band themselves were full of praise for it too.

^^ It's a good one. I had that 4x7" singles box for quite some time, till I swapped it for cash. It was the b-side of Rocket 7", no?

Heart you Flappy, but Set the Ray to Jerry is top 10 SP material man.

Clip is great. Painfully great. How did he get so lost etc

it's a great song, and I agree with Brad that it stands alone in SP's massive body of work, it really expresses a very specific yet ineffable emotion... still not one that moved me like 50+ other BC songs... but it is a gem

How did he get so lost etc

Forced breakup of original lineup very shortly after that rehearsal was filmed + the lukewarm reception of Adore broke him. I love Ogilala because it's the first time since Adore where he's been completely open and let himself be vulnerable. Every other record, and I love a lot of them, is clouded either by conceit or second-guessing. Adore is a remarkably honest record, and once he got whipped for it, he went from shell to shell for each project for the next 20 years.

never underestimate the ability of a wildly insecure paranoiac/egomaniac to get lost as hell imo

yep

Really want to dig for the cassette I played religiously circa 94/95 when doing my paper route. All pre-Gish songs. Now that would be a poll!

(got the cassette through Listessa, the SP mailing list when I just got online. How that is 23 years ago right now, I've no clue...)

*mailing list I was one when I just got online

going off purely by memory i think i'd vote for "my eternity" in that poll

Good call! 'On My Own' was the one that always devastated me.

i know it's popular to hate on zeitgeist but i liked it a lot at the time even though it was a total miscalculation in mood. (it's possible that i wanted it to be much better than it is.) "that's the way (my love is)" is a great song and single imo, and i still think "ma belle" is the best sp mk2 song

can't see putting myself through "united states" again though, woof

oh but "bring the light" is wonderful imo

Ah I see, the big discussion was over here.

"jerry" was so hyped before i ever heard it that i also struggled to understand it for years but it just like... nails this unbelievably beautiful vibe that doesn't resemble any other pumpkins song (or many other songs i can think of). i wish there was a band that just sounded like that

Pretty much as soon as I got that single at the time of release and heard that I was all "Well this is ridiculously perfect." Maybe the closest thing to it was "Glynis" but that's not even really true in terms of actual construction or arrangement -- it's just a question of vibe as you say. That song honored a friend and acknowledged final loss. This one seems to create warmth, a space that can be filled, rather than an unavoidable gap.

"i of the mourning" is prob my fav pumpkins song just for the ending alone. it also always sounded incredible live

It did indeed.

Glynis most def closest to Jerry.

i know it's popular to hate on zeitgeist but i liked it a lot at the time even though it was a total miscalculation in mood. (it's possible that i wanted it to be much better than it is.) "that's the way (my love is)" is a great song and single imo, and i still think "ma belle" is the best sp mk2 song

Posting here because there are two BC threads up already... new footage from the pre-VMAs '96 interview with Tabitha Soren about Jimmy's firing & Jonathan's death. Never seen any of this, & it's from the same channel. They've been uploading tons of archival stuff in the past few days that I've never heard or seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjO0Xou_RPg

Spoke too soon - first 3 minutes is new, rest is the footage that's been out there for a while, albeit in much better quality.

and yeah that was Matt Walker rehearsing with them in the first video too, not Jimmy

there are some great riffs on the pre-Gish stuff. like "nothing and everything" and "c'mon"

Set the Ray To Jerry is probably the best Mellon Collie B-side but I don't really get the hype, it's quite good but not incredible. there are some Bloc Party tracks with fairly similar feelings I think. most of the other B-sides seem like B-sides for a reason though.

I always thought PENNIES was the best b-side of theirs from this era. Could've been a hit single along the lines of MUZZLE or 33 if shipped to radio.

Those MTV clips bring back memories. God how I'd used to watch The Week in Rock hoping for any mention of SP back then.

About the Mellon Collie B-sides, I think we can ALL agree that "The Boy" was Iha's best SP song by a wide country mile.

Iha's best song is by far Blew Away

"Go" is pretty. "...Said Sadly" is nice in its own way. I thought his voice was a bit weak on "Blew Away," but I do like the song.

Watching those clips flappy posted reminds me how great Iha was as a foil to Billy's bloviating in interviews.

I'd agree on 'The Boy' but '...Said Sadly' is lovely too. Listening to the Zwan album on YouTube last night led me to Iha's first solo album which I'd never heard before - pretty mediocre but there were a couple of nice '60s pop styled songs towards the end.

of the studio versions of James songs, I prefer Blew Away, but The Boy is sick, especially this super fast new wave version: https://archive.org/details/tsp1994-06-18.shn/tsp1994-06-18t04.shn#

At least 6 people singing praises for “set the ray to jerry” and only two votes :(

I think pennies and set the ray are my favorite songs from this era and probably their whole caralogue which might sound crazy considering they’re not even on the album. I hate that some songs like “shine in our spit” or “take me down” or “lily” made it when they should’ve been b-sides instead of those two.

At any rate it’s impressive how creative this era of the band and Corgan was, they had songs to make at least 3 good to great albums and nowadays he struggles to make a decent song.

ha i've never heard Fuck You (An Ode to No One) referred to as "Shine in Our Spit." that's one of my favorites though, consistently amazing live performances & one of BC's best recorded solos.

Oh yes it’s “fuck you (an ode to noone)” haha forgot the name and remembered that part of the lyrics.

i revisited all these b-sides last night and “mouths of babes” is just a wildly good song, hook upon hook upon hook

I like it too but I always thought it was too jarring after “for noone” maybe it’s the sequencing of it which I’m not fond of.

it’s like if “where boys fear to tread” were more than just a riff

WBFTT is a riff AND the coolest intro of all time

How fucking dope is that feedback that lets loose just before the main riff kicks in? It sounds like a damn flute

Mouths of babes sounded like it was recorded earlier to me, like it totally could have fit on Siamese Dream

thread has inspired me to put on that massive SP b-sides collection that's on Spotify. don't think I'd heard "Beginning is the End is the Beginning" since its use in the Watchmen trailer, which was actually pretty clever imo

How fucking dope is that feedback that lets loose just before the main riff kicks in? It sounds like a damn flute

― brimstead, Thursday, November 2, 2017 10:37 AM (thirteen minutes ago)

i ain’t denying this

Mouths of Babes is so much fun to play on guitar. Riffs upon riffs. I always loved its sister song, Marquis in Spades, a lot too.

some comments on both songs:

"During the year and a half of Siamese Dream touring, we tried to work on all sorts of new songs. From all the endless jams and tapes, this song and 'Marquis in Spades' were the only ones that survived. A favorite at soundcheck with nonlyrics forever. Another heavy metal victim, or at least too much like a Siamese Dream track." -BC (Guitar World 1/97)

"The band never really liked (Marquis in Spades). They were always snickering at it, but I always liked its sheer brutality. It was recorded live on my 8-track cassette recorder, on which I've done almost all my demos since before Gish." -BC (Guitar World 1/97)

On the playing god thread I did this experiment trimming 10 songs and dividing it into 4 parts, 2 “rocking” ones and 2 melancholic ones (I kept Lily even when it’s one of my least favorites :/)

A side

1. Where Boys Fear to Thread
2. Bodies
3. Muzzle
4. 1979
5. Here Is No Why

B side

1. To Forgive
2. Pennies
3. Thirty Three
4. Thru The Eyes of Ruby
5. We Only Come Out at Night

C side

1. Set the Ray to Jerry
2. Love
3. Zero
4. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
5. Jellybelly

D side

1. Galapogos
2. Stumbleine
3. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
4. Lily (My One and Only)
5. Tonight Tonight

huh, that’s pretty good! i can hear the transitions in my head and they’re pretty seamless

iirc the only worthless MCIS b-side (not counting the covers) is "Blank"

solid list, interesting sequencing choices. Tonight, Tonight is an interesting closer

I wouldn't change anything about MCIS though- the sequencing is perfect & pretty funny, I feel like that aspect of the record is really overlooked. Tonight, Tonight followed by Jellybelly is hilarious, and then on disc 2 an even more extreme example- 1979 followed by Tales of a Scorched Earth.