Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

anywhere there's a considerable power differential really

aka everywhere

so is the imminent awards-friendly film Call Me by Your Name, about a romance/affair between two males aged 24 and 17, going to be shouted down as a rape movie?

no

but adult:teenager

17 is not 14

I agree

ok bye guys

lol

(having never heard of the film) it is possible to both

1) think that adults shouldn't try to fuck teenagers
2) appreciate a piece of art that addresses complexities of adult-teenager sexual relationships

and honestly my advice to a 24 year old interested in a 17 year old, no matter how sophisticated or mature that 17 year old seems to be - wait a fuckin year or two!!! it's not that hard

*beat*

Not that I'm trying to justify those kind of arguments or anything, but ephebophilia is a real thing, and presumably way more common than "proper" pedophilia... Hence all those "barely legal" porn flicks etc.

― Tuomas, Friday, November 3, 2017 5:54 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you can make words for anything, who cares? the only people who actually use the word are the people who frequently find themselves defending predatorial behavior

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C33&q=ephebophilia&btnG=&oq=epheb

I'm still frustrated and angry about a couple men my sister was involved with when she was 19 and they were around 30. There are exceptions to the rule, but generally something is highly suspect in that dynamic and having that suspicion realized is painful

I still am o_O every time I think of my friend's sister, who lives in a small town and started dating a dude who was probably 30 when she was 15 (!) and is now married to him.

xp ok, the only people who care to hammer the distinction in real life and not just in academic papers about the catholic church

It's not absurd to say that finding post-pubertal humans attractive is a different thing to wanting to fuck young children. Calling the former by the name of the latter is unhelpful precisely because it makes it harder to discuss what wrong can be done by a 26-year-old having sex with a consenting 14-year-old.

yeah I don't follow how calling a adult who rapes a 14 year old a pedophile makes anything additionally difficult for anyone but ok

"consenting 14 year old"

hooooo boy there must be some libertarians in the house

The long account by the second teen Spacey accuser makes it clear he thought he was consenting at the time. It also elucidates how his supposed consent did not actually mean he was mature enough to be having sex, and that Spacey (& al) damaged him by that relationship.

That dude was 24?!

This one: http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/kevin-spacey-alleged-sexual-relationship.html

I meant the dude from call me by your name. He looks a lot older (and the kid younger than 17) to me

Armie Hammer is 30, Chalamet 21.

the characters are 24 and 17

Wow (at the latter, not surprised at all by the former) xp

Chalamet plays a teen again in the new Gerwig film.

Benny Hill was one of the least surprising but I don't know what happened.

Alec Baldwin: 'I've bullied women.'

many xposts but sic otm

shit is getting heated itt and i get it, age gap wrt sex is a hugely contentious & subjective issue.

i really do think it’s a valid topic for conversation and I want it to be talked about but only IF we listen to each other & appreciate that not everyone a) shares your view or b) shares the unique experiences that inform yr opinion

but i also get that it’s also v painful & personal and very black & white for some ppl and maybe an open discussion itt specifically isn’t the right space for this kind of conversation

& we maybe move on?

idk

I just need to get the fuck out of ilx for good

Hey qualx, I'm with you on this. It is a narcissism of small differences thing.

debates over the age at which it's morally ok to fuck adolescents isn't a small difference situation imo

at times I'm reminded that this place isn't for me, I've spent the better part of the day with my skin crawling, I'm done

i think u misunderstood me. i meant from the perspective of those defending the distiction.

17 isn't adolescent though. Still, in all probability, problematic for anyone much over 21. Anyway, this isn't about age, it's about power and control, although obviously people in their 20s dating anyone under 17 is creepy at best

"17 isn't adolescent though" isn't it? I think everything through 19 is 'adolescent'.

to clarify my statement above that caused some dust up: my take on that was that the man was clearly a damaged kid at 14 who certainly perceived himself to be consenting at that age, and then in retrospect realized that consent at that age is rather dicey. I didn't mean to disparage him which is why I said "i'm not victim blaming". the 'but' was probably the wrong word to use. in my defense I'd just woken up, it was like 5:30 am and I hadn't had any coffee and wasn't really phrasing things in a very artful manner. My thoughts on it are better conveyed by VegemiteWoman

i guess in trying not to negate the Spacey accuser’s experience i’ve opened up a can of worms that i’m not able or informed enough to moderate or even navigate

i’m not coming down on either side of this issue because of personal reasons that i’m not willing to share

i naively thought that entertaining the ~idea~ could be done at a distance idk academically i guess but i really did not think through where this thought exercise would go & i am sorry for that

i am not sorry for wanting to talk about it though

idk if i can deal with this convo anymore either tbh
came back to say that maybe instead of "fucked up" we can say "vulnerable" with an optional "to predators"?

i appreciate the thoughtful discussion, am glad VG is here asking tough questions
17 is adolescent, don't kid yourself

MORE: NYPD says it is building a rape case against Harvey Weinstein, gathering evidence to seek an arrest warrant. https://t.co/h2Bvw0R0wE

— AP Eastern U.S. (@APEastRegion) November 3, 2017

TNR publisher Hamilton Fish resigns amid harassment allegations https://t.co/GKeLuOl1Fp

— Jessica Schulberg (@jessicaschulb) November 3, 2017

WME's Adam Venit on leave amid sexual harassment allegations involving actor Terry Crews (EXCLUSIVE) https://t.co/IMKtI3ZECC pic.twitter.com/w4xhUYy7Cr

— Variety (@Variety) November 3, 2017

whoa

17 is adolescent, don't kid yourself

otm, although we should probably allow better discretion in cases of relationships where one is 17 and the other is, say, 19, because statutory rape in most jurisdictions carries implications that could be considered a little harsh for somebody who has just become an adult, and where neither party has much influence on the outcome, certainly not compared to the "real" adults who are likely to engage with the case i.e. parents

all that of nuance is of course rather jejune on a thread about fucked up shit where the abusers have held order of magnitude more power and influence than the victims, even fucking Toback

the impossibility of discussing this properly is depressing

so sorry you can't have a reasoned debate over the ethics of pederasty because it triggers an emotional response in people who don't appreciate being told that statutory rape is supposed to be good for them! so so so sorry

here's black and white: if you're in your 20s+ and you have have sex with a 14 year old on the off chance that it won't impart to them a lifetime of psychological trauma, you're a pedophile and a rapist.

on the off chance that that child grew up and had nothing but positive memories of the experience, you're still a pedophile and a rapist

until you can invent a time machine that'll send you 50 years in the future so you can have an adult conversation with the child you had sex with and they tell you "i'm glad it happened and do not consider myself taken advantage of or raped", you're a pedophile and a rapist

just like how in the off chance that you violently rape an adult who happens to have a violent rape fetish you knew nothing about, and they couldn't be happier about it, you're still a rapist

full stop

that's it

don't give a shit about your shades of grey, don't know why this is difficult, fuck off

but congrats to morbs for popping in to reference a movie no one was talking about so the conversation deflects to debating a much smaller age gap, gj

You are having an argument with literally no-one - maybe get some sleep, man.

having an argument on a topic i didn't bring up, that has come up here before specifically by posters who have contributed to this exact conversation, that has been written on and defended in popular publications, and i'm sick of shutting up over it, and i'm definitely sick of hearing that emotional responses to rape are stifling some great debate club antics that are supposed to be happening

TNR publisher Hamilton Fish resigns amid harassment allegations https://t.co/GKeLuOl1Fp

— Jessica Schulberg (@jessicaschulb) November 3, 2017

no! he was the pillar of the grant administration!

if you were a gay kid who had a positive sexual experience w/ an older man and you consider it a good thing that happened, i'm genuinely not trying to take that away from you

but it doesn't negate anything i put in that post