Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

Ellen Page post is straight fire.

although to leave Bill Clinton out of her rage seems odd

Exhausting but thorough, when the day’s news needs a timeline like this: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-bbc-pulling-mystery-thriller-featuring-westwick-145613448.html

although to leave Bill Clinton out of her rage seems odd

― Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, November 10, 2017

YES WHAT ABOUT THE CLINTONS

i am very much hoping that the jeffrey tambor story is a false flag

When I saw the Anthony Edwards url I cringed (don't know who Gary whatever is) but thankfully not the case.

Gary whoever was also accused in that Bryan Singer lawsuit (then dropped) a few years back.

It is pretty bad (massive understatement here) when you steel yourself to read one of those stories and come out the other side going "phew, he's the one who was abused"

didn't realize the upcoming Queen/Mercury biopic was directed by Singer

(or that it was in postproduction)

the misty upham story in that ellen page post is so disturbing to my soul, even in the context of all these other disturbing stories

It is pretty bad (massive understatement here) when you steel yourself to read one of those stories and come out the other side going "phew, he's the one who was abused"

― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP)

Yeah, I had to think about my phrasing for a few seconds ("thank god Anthony was abused").

finally read the latest ronan farrow new yorker thing and holy shit

trying to think which hollywood man I'd be surprised to learn such things about. Clooney has a pretty squeaky image I guess. Spielberg. That's probably it.

uh, George Takei

^ just saw that. Bad Sulu.

for real? if so, that's wild because he basically admitted as much when he was sitting in on Howard Stern back in early October, the very first show after the Weinstein story happened. Howard jokingly asked if George had ever been inappropriate with men or forceful, and there was a long pause, and he just said "um...." they were laughing, Howard asked him to describe what he meant, George said something like "well, you know, sometimes people who may be young, or uncomfortable or scared, they may need some... coercing or, encouragement, uh...." another long pause. then Howard goes "do we need to call the police?"

How long til they cancel the Oscars? I mean surely..

A friend on the Takei accusation: "He is describing half the pick ups and going home from bars in gay history."

I don't know that I agree, but there are more dubious factors in this one than in most of the incidents heretofore described.

(witchfinder general descends on Dr Morbius' lab)

What dubious factors?

I've said enough.

I'm appreciating the posts from Our Gays here a lot because I've been wondering what is the place of sexual "deviancy" after our current moment. I know of abusers in my profession who've characterized their behavior as deviancy: swinging, partner swapping, three+somes, etc. Participants have responded that the abuser coerced them into these activities: the consent was very gray, both because of significant power differentials and because of deviancy.

I wonder about the practicality of engaging in "deviant" behavior while having the kind of enthusiastic consent that's idealized as responses to coercion.

I tend to think of people on the Left as friends of deviancy in some very vague sense, and in our moment people on the Left are also friends of a pretty firm morality: enthusiastic consent is a marker of a principle of "don't harm others". But I'm thinking about how the avoidance of harm can be assured in the midst of "deviancy", and if it can't be assured, what place is there for "deviancy" in a Leftist culture?

some lefties are most definitely the New Puritans.

consent is a marker of a principle of "don't harm others". But I'm thinking about how the avoidance of harm can be assured in the midst of "deviancy"

Where there is the risk of harm, then the consenter, if they are above the age of consent, is consenting to that risk. Where there is mutuality, responsibility is not confined to either partner.

We need to talk about @SwetShopBoys.
About them being held up as examples of progressive South Asian men.
They benefit from the uplift of a whole diasporic community.
Riz & Himanshu are you sure all of your behaviour in the past has been acceptable?

— Kindness (@Kindness) November 10, 2017

There's probably a range of gay social spaces, and maybe times have changed. When I went with gay friends to discos in the early 90s, I'd be groped on the dance floor. I identify as asexual leaning straight, but I didn't find it threatening, perhaps... flattering? I figured, their space, their rules. I wouldn't be surprised if much more went on without consent at leather bars, and much less and wine bars.

there’s the argument that being in some spaces is ad hoc consent for touching others, but the unspoken part of it is where it’s a grey area and some of my friends who frequent those spaces still find it predatory and unwelcome. especially when the more aggressive people are known predators

Obv, if we all lived in large enough communities of more or less shared interests, I'm sure there would be a range of spaces with differing norms available. Some places where it was accepted that one could be pushed against a wall, some where notes would be discretely passed by waiters. I don't doubt that in some places like NY and SF, a range of spaces approximating that may exist. Perhaps the invasions of personal space we may be consenting to would be posted at entrances.

It's all rather complicated. Its lead some like myself to simply not bother with the mess that is sexuality, its evidently lead others to assume consent based on past norms they were exposed to.

Personally, I think we be lenient towards sexual advances in social spaces where its close to the norm. Sexual harassment in discos can be avoided by dancing at home. We should pay closest attention to sexual advances/harassment in the workplace, especially when committed by those with power. For actors and many others, the workplace extends to restaurants, and sexual advances shouldn't be tolerated there. On the other hand, when someone consents to visiting Harvey Weinstein or his ilk in a bedroom or hotel suite, alone, I can easily see fair minded jury members concluding that this constitutes consent to advances, but not consent to acts. Private spaces aren't work spaces, and its a distinction worth preserving.

Sexual harassment in discos can be avoided by dancing at home.

Er Sanpaku love you man but wtf is this

What I'm saying is that in some spaces, most patrons have their own norms that are related to but don't coincide exactly with mainstream ones. I'm not sure if there's any place where consent to clothing-invasive touching is implied, but there are plenty of places where less-invasive touching is accepted.

When I visited that gay disco in the early 90s (it warms my heart to discover that Rich's of Houston is still around, 25-odd years later), as an outsider in every way but looking like a twink, I recognized that I consented to the norms of that community at that time. I'm not going to go after my then acquaintance, then the campus ACLU rep and probably now an ACLU lawyer, for grabbing my junk then. We were both adults. There were no employment issues involved. It might have harmed others who don't share my nonchalance, but that was perhaps a normal sexual advance in that time and place.

Now, a disco that caters to frat boys and sorority girls, if the sorority girls want to sue, by all means. I'd love to see some of those dens of nonconsensual advances (by which I mean the frats) go down.

I'm not going to get all Camille Paglia here: I'm not that far down that rat hole. I just think that a social norm, in which no previously unconsented touching is acceptable, in any context, isn't one in accord with human nature. Some people go to discos to be touched, if not sexually, than by the press of the crowd. It's why I went.

Now, how we negotiate the lines of what is and isn't acceptable in each context is another matter. I think we can all agree that work relationships shouldn't involve unwanted sexual advances. I think we can all agree that minors aren't equipped to consent. Weinstein should rot. Spacey's ephebophilia should be condemned. But I'm not bothered with the Takei story, and I'd like to think it has nothing to do with sharing political views.

the dude he groped seems bothered by it

specifically, the guy claiming "he passed out and awoke to find Takei trying to strip him and groping his genitals"

Good for Gadot for forcing WB's hand re: Ratner.

https://www.information.dk/indland/2017/11/years-lars-von-triers-producer-partner-systematically-spanked-trainees-as-punishment?lst_prelnoart

The original report in English: http://politiken.dk/kultur/art6202316/Former-Zentropa-employees-expose-system-of-degradation-and-sexual-harassment

Amazingly, the dude isn't fired yet, and is even propped up by the main Danish film magazine, who has mostly spent the last month blaming women. We need something good to happen...

ahh Lars von Trier already made a (pretty good) movie about this right...

Xp Brunton implies he might’ve been roofied, too - and I don’t care what social norms are in any group, this guy thought he was having a drink with a friend and instead was sexually assaulted.

dunno if it was posted somewhere else on ilx

https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/rebecca-traister-on-the-post-weinstein-reckoning.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/elizabeth-perkins-james-woods-me-too-rally_us_5a09bd07e4b0bc648a0c9e6a

Woods, Oliver Stone...definitely some low-hanging fruit out there.

That Traister piece is great.

“In early September, before the existence of the warrant for McGowan was public, Weinstein held a meeting with his private investigators that was focussed on the efforts to arrest McGowan...”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/rose-mcgowan-speaks-out-about-her-arrest-on-drug-charges

this shit is terrifying & all those people should go to jail

the only way anything is going to fundamentally change is if we burn everything down and start over. there's still way too much rot and privilege embedded in all the interlocking systems.

^^^

Weinstein handing out book deals to gossip assassins in exchange for them taking down accusers will hopefully be part of Ronan Farrow's work in the coming months.

Lawyers gotta be frothing to bleed Weinstein dry by now. I dunno how it all works but I assume there’s some coordinating that has to go on with the DAs that have jurisdiction over who gets to start carving what first.

Also are the unions gonna take any of this on the chin for not protecting their members? It’s more than setting the daily rates, folks.

maura otm

damn this is the same shit Francis Farmer had to deal with 75 years ago

There seems to be enough room for reasonable doubt, seeing as she did not have the wallet in her possession when the coke was found there. But still, how horrible.