Sexual harassment in discos can be avoided by dancing at home.
Er Sanpaku love you man but wtf is this
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 12 November 2017 00:56 (six years ago) link
What I'm saying is that in some spaces, most patrons have their own norms that are related to but don't coincide exactly with mainstream ones. I'm not sure if there's any place where consent to clothing-invasive touching is implied, but there are plenty of places where less-invasive touching is accepted.
When I visited that gay disco in the early 90s (it warms my heart to discover that Rich's of Houston is still around, 25-odd years later), as an outsider in every way but looking like a twink, I recognized that I consented to the norms of that community at that time. I'm not going to go after my then acquaintance, then the campus ACLU rep and probably now an ACLU lawyer, for grabbing my junk then. We were both adults. There were no employment issues involved. It might have harmed others who don't share my nonchalance, but that was perhaps a normal sexual advance in that time and place.
Now, a disco that caters to frat boys and sorority girls, if the sorority girls want to sue, by all means. I'd love to see some of those dens of nonconsensual advances (by which I mean the frats) go down.
I'm not going to get all Camille Paglia here: I'm not that far down that rat hole. I just think that a social norm, in which no previously unconsented touching is acceptable, in any context, isn't one in accord with human nature. Some people go to discos to be touched, if not sexually, than by the press of the crowd. It's why I went.
Now, how we negotiate the lines of what is and isn't acceptable in each context is another matter. I think we can all agree that work relationships shouldn't involve unwanted sexual advances. I think we can all agree that minors aren't equipped to consent. Weinstein should rot. Spacey's ephebophilia should be condemned. But I'm not bothered with the Takei story, and I'd like to think it has nothing to do with sharing political views.
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 12 November 2017 01:30 (six years ago) link
the dude he groped seems bothered by it
― flappy bird, Sunday, 12 November 2017 03:04 (six years ago) link
specifically, the guy claiming "he passed out and awoke to find Takei trying to strip him and groping his genitals"
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 12 November 2017 09:33 (six years ago) link
Good for Gadot for forcing WB's hand re: Ratner.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 November 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
https://www.information.dk/indland/2017/11/years-lars-von-triers-producer-partner-systematically-spanked-trainees-as-punishment?lst_prelnoart
― Frederik B, Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:06 (six years ago) link
The original report in English: http://politiken.dk/kultur/art6202316/Former-Zentropa-employees-expose-system-of-degradation-and-sexual-harassment
Amazingly, the dude isn't fired yet, and is even propped up by the main Danish film magazine, who has mostly spent the last month blaming women. We need something good to happen...
― Frederik B, Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:13 (six years ago) link
ahh Lars von Trier already made a (pretty good) movie about this right...
― Ludo, Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
Xp Brunton implies he might’ve been roofied, too - and I don’t care what social norms are in any group, this guy thought he was having a drink with a friend and instead was sexually assaulted.
― just1n3, Sunday, 12 November 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
dunno if it was posted somewhere else on ilx
https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/rebecca-traister-on-the-post-weinstein-reckoning.html
― Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:22 (six years ago) link
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/elizabeth-perkins-james-woods-me-too-rally_us_5a09bd07e4b0bc648a0c9e6a
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:27 (six years ago) link
Woods, Oliver Stone...definitely some low-hanging fruit out there.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:35 (six years ago) link
That Traister piece is great.
― horseshoe, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
“In early September, before the existence of the warrant for McGowan was public, Weinstein held a meeting with his private investigators that was focussed on the efforts to arrest McGowan...”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/rose-mcgowan-speaks-out-about-her-arrest-on-drug-charges
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 14:50 (six years ago) link
this shit is terrifying & all those people should go to jail
― ogmor, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:27 (six years ago) link
the only way anything is going to fundamentally change is if we burn everything down and start over. there's still way too much rot and privilege embedded in all the interlocking systems.
― maura, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:36 (six years ago) link
^^^
― Simon H., Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
Weinstein handing out book deals to gossip assassins in exchange for them taking down accusers will hopefully be part of Ronan Farrow's work in the coming months.
― omar little, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
Lawyers gotta be frothing to bleed Weinstein dry by now. I dunno how it all works but I assume there’s some coordinating that has to go on with the DAs that have jurisdiction over who gets to start carving what first.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:55 (six years ago) link
Also are the unions gonna take any of this on the chin for not protecting their members? It’s more than setting the daily rates, folks.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:57 (six years ago) link
maura otm
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:57 (six years ago) link
damn this is the same shit Francis Farmer had to deal with 75 years ago
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:57 (six years ago) link
There seems to be enough room for reasonable doubt, seeing as she did not have the wallet in her possession when the coke was found there. But still, how horrible.
― kim jong deal (suzy), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
and she still hasn't had her revenge
xpost
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:00 (six years ago) link
So angry rn...
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
ninety-nine times out of a hundred the "mossad agents have been tailing me and likely framed me for drug possession" is a bad defense, but...
― mh, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:17 (six years ago) link
ok are we seriously all gonna multi-otm "burn everything down and start over"
maybe I should start a thread about how society is irretrievably corrupted and broken and humans are rotten oh wait I think we already have one for e.m. cioran quotes
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:38 (six years ago) link
let me be the first to apologize for being a disgusting incrementalist
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:39 (six years ago) link
burn it all down otm, imo
there are two kinds of people: those who have faith in the system & its ability to self correct, and those who see it as fundamentally fucked up
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:41 (six years ago) link
a lot of people i know who have the most faith in the system see it in the most clear-minded way; those are the more right wing types who appreciate the advantages it has given them
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:42 (six years ago) link
I don't agree with that either because I am both of those people
I ensure all my new employees are familiar with the word "sisyphean"
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:42 (six years ago) link
yeah idk burning everything down only works if you include everyone in your new world
if you're too selective, you don't get Sisyphus deciding not to roll the boulder, you get... Atlas shrugging
― mh, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:45 (six years ago) link
I mean yes, the system is fundamentally fucked up, because it is made of human beings
but also, deliberate incremental change is less likely to result in wholesale destruction and mass murder and plundering and so forth
or what mh said
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
burn it all down is the goal, though
― mh, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:02 (six years ago) link
The biggest problem with burning it all down is that the people with access to the resources that will allow you to start over usually use those resources to the see the fire coming and either abscond with as much of them as they can, making the "start over" part even harder than it already is, or insert themselves into the process of starting over so they can make sure the new system still benefits them.
I think there is a lot of romantic appeal to hitting the reset button but navigating the practicality of actually doing it is fraught with peril; I won't say that makes it not worth doing but it should be taken into consideration in your planning.
― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:07 (six years ago) link
What does "burn it all down" mean in concrete terms? Boycotting Hollywood movies?
― jmm, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:09 (six years ago) link
arson, imo
― mh, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
Concrete beams don't burn
― fake pato is kind of racist, dude (darraghmac), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
being shitty to women is the foundation of modern civilizationi hope we can burn it down but i would like to suggest controlled burns until we can get a better idea of how to proceed when the burning is complete
rebecca traister's most recent article is a series of truth bombs we can start with
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
humanity is wretched and violent and always will be imo
― marcos, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
the world is mean and man uncouth!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:12 (six years ago) link
https://www.spin.com/featured/fyf-fest-sean-carlson-sexual-harassment-assault-allegations/
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:13 (six years ago) link
are we going to get into the "it's possible to set goals that are persistent because you never completely reach them" discussion again? because I think they're useful
no more misogynyno more harassmentno more
― mh, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
the only problem is when you set goals that you never get started on because oh what's the use
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:16 (six years ago) link
LL you mean this one right
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
yes
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
la lechera otmimo it’s a shitty look to pile-on the “burn it all down” sentimentif there is anywhere that “burn it all down” should be otm’d repeatedly it’s here in this thread! if that’s cliched or impractical blah blah humans are the problem etc etc oh well go roll your eyes somewhere where i can’t see you i get the chinstroking etc & i’m not saying dont do that but don’t just kneekjerk dismiss it like that, it makes you look like dicks this isn’t a fuckin board meeting of town supervisors ffs
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
the traister article is extremely good until the last paragraph when it feels like she felt the need to let her foot off the necks of her enemies, or something. Sorry for the violent image but it feels apropos. The "optimism" of a few election results is hella 'neoliberal' in the current vogue sense of the term
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
The most practical, 'lite' version of burning it down wrt the entertainment industry is probably to avoid personally helping to subsidize people/companies who create or prop up regressive shit. You vote with your dollars. They're called 'dollar votes'.
― Home of the Ill-Considered Gravy Spigot (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:07 AM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i have no practical suggestions re: burning it all down, but i think its still important to recognize that we cant really just patch things up & have faith in the system once again (not arguing w/ you here djp just making a broader point)
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:24 (six years ago) link