2017 end of the year lists

I can see why one can't stomach it, but this:

But perhaps even his wife might have preferred he made something that had a least a little joy and humor in tribute to her, and would have preferred this had stayed in the vault.

is in extremely poor taste.

"I, the person who did not know the deceased, think her husband should have put more humor in his tribute to her. I'm sure she'd agree with me."

Yeah, your wording is so much better. Go with that.

It bothers you that much, huh?

I thought it was an excellent evocation of grief and a decent album, in that order. I've heard his subsequent material is sounding better

Maybe feeling the intensity of it is a legitimate reason to be moved enough to rate it highly, despite how boring the songs might be without that context? Whether or not your cynicism is correct just doesn't seem worth the energy putting sad artists in their place because you're angry at the reception they get. And maybe you seem angrier than you are. It's the internet so I'm not sure.

i don't think it's particularly maudlin or plodding. its straightforwardness feels unsentimental to me, in a way, and musically it really doesn't plod much. have you been holding yourself back from telling your truths about this album about intense grief all year or what

Nearly every year there's an album that's grossly overrated because it's an uncomfortably personal moment of oversharing by someone who is grieving.

I'm almost curious as to what the other ones that fn'b is thinking of here

also "when real death enters the house / all poetry is dumb" is pretty humorous and also harrowing and piercing and true in the way humor can occasionally be

Nearly every year there's an album that's grossly overrated because it's an uncomfortably personal moment of oversharing by someone who is grieving.

I'm almost curious as to what the other ones that fn'b is thinking of here

― Simon H., Friday, December 1, 2017 2:44 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sun Kil Moon - Benji?

maybe the sufjan album?

those and Nick Cave came to mind, but none deserve blanket dismissal

grief only makes up a portion of the substance of benji, there are also songs about sex and prog

how soon we forget the old taylor

there is room in art for all varieties of expression. it may be a bummer, but there are all these quotidian details that really take me to a world of grief I haven't quite heard before. that may not be what you look for from an album, but saying it never have been released, and ventriloquizing a dead body to say it, is some bs

it's uncomfortable [for me] to listen to in the way that it's uncomfortable to visit someone who is grieving or observe someone's grief at a funeral. i don't think this makes it a lesser piece of art tho - if anything being able to capture this sensation in an album is an achievement imo.

otm xp

sufjan is certainly more overrated than the mt eerie album. for example on rym 'a crow looked at me' is #4 on the 2017 chart, which feels fine tbh, but #1 is fuckin 'carrie & lowell live' -_-

OK I guess I'm thinking the albums in question all have a notable mix of (varying degrees of) grief + "confessional"

xp to Brad

yeah i get why it came up in the discussion

the sufjan album is beautiful to this particular non-sufjan-believer but i think talking about these albums in terms of how "overrated" they are is misguided and uninteresting

well fine. just illustrating the point that ACLAM isn't as, um, acclaimed as fnb is saying

what does checking "live" mean on the rym search?

results will include live albums, which RYMers LOVE

oh that makes sense. that's crazy!

I get why someone might find Crow gauche and awkward because it feels like an intrusion on someone processing grief, and I've listened to it and thought it might be evidence of someone not thinking straight and making an odd decision to release it. But I'm drawn to it, and for the same reasons. Its awkwardness and nakedness are structural and what makes it such a powerful statement. I can't think we'll ever see the likes of it again; that's a good enough reason to salute it.

One of the producers of today's Sound Opinions picked it as his choice for album of the year, and suffering through the clip brought me flashbacks of the album. It's currently #32 in the AOTY aggregate, which seems quite high, given the hundreds and hundreds of albums out there.

"Ventriloquizing a dead body" seriously? It's pretty clear that I was not doing that. No one knows what the dead would have thought, but it was certainly a possibility. That's all I said. Raise your hand if you'd like to be eulogized that way.

Yes, the album at times accurately captures harrowing moments of despair, hollowness, and endless mundanity. I just disagree that it's good music. I'm not going to spell it out for you all beyond the fact that some people will be going through a similar experience sooner than most. I believe there are many better options that deal with grief that are more balanced and healing, that's all.

Raise your hand if you'd like to be eulogized that way.

I for one cannot imagine giving a fuck though admittedly I am not dying, to my knowledge

having a poet describe some of the things that i could never put into words with such directness has definitely helped me view my own grief in a different way. and for that alone it is an excellent piece of art, whether you want to call it "music" or "spoken word poetry with accompaniment"

I for one cannot imagine giving a fuck though admittedly I am not dying, to my knowledge

At least you know what should go on your tombstone.

a tombstone? in this economy?

In bas-relief using your ashes? That would be pretty metal.

thanks fnb for inspiring me to relisten to A Crow Looked at Me and reminding me that it needs to be on my eventual ballot

Is Arcade Fire's Funeral one of these grief albums?

to go way back - that Ibeyi album is a HUGE leap forward and I was really surprised by how good it was.

Jonny Nash has been a hero this year - the Gaussian Curve album, his solo album and the collab with Suzanne Kraft as mentioned, but he's also got a new one recently out with Lindsay Todd called Fauna Mapping. I think everything the label Melody As Truth is releasing just now is flawless.

this thread took a mind-boggling turn while i was in a meeting

You're mad that critics are inclined to rate an album higher due to sympathy? Cynicism motivates you to point this out... beyond that is there any reason to bother mentioning it?

I'm not mad or cynical, but you seem angry.

I'm not! I'm just trying to figure out what's to gain by speculating critics are overrating confessional albums by grieving artists.

Apparently a handful of insulting posts! It was simply an observation.

Boxedjoy otm about Jonny Nash. The collab with Suzanne Kraft really sounds a lot like Alva Noto minus the glitch.

I recently discovered Kraft's 2014 album and was entranced

I found Crow raw and scary and somehow NOT maudlin but accurate and evocative of how grieving fucks with you. fnb, you don't have to share the sentiment but you gotta acknowledge that there's a critical mass of people that heard it different from you.

i understand where a theory that critics overrate confessional albums by grieving artists is coming from. i definitely think there can be an element of elevating a work like CROW because of its circumstances and presentation. someone else up there said it: Phil just getting this made and out is worthy of "points" - i get that.

and i agree with that! he does get points! to be clear, i'm not on FNB's side here, just saying i could see it as a thing.

(that said, i don't really believe in overrated/underrated. if you rate it, that's how it's rated. nobody gets to set the "true" value of the album, against which other opinions are measured.)

overrated/underrated is an unhelpful idea in criticism generally but it certainly applies on a personal level - at times we all surely think to ourselves 'why does nobody like this?' or 'why do so many people like that?'. agree we shouldn't really be using it on here though and I'm sorry for doing so, even if it was to sort-of defend mt eerie's honour

Using personal tragedy as a jumping-off point for creating art is a totally viable and useful thing that has made things like Maus and Fun Home and A Year Of Magical Thinking and Carrie & Lowell

I don't think the problem is the process itself

My issue with Crow is that I find it gruelling and not-particularly-useful to me personally as a piece of art

Added to this is the fact that I feel unable to actually access any critical faculties in order to express my why it does nothing for me

Because it feels as if criticizing Crow is akin to criticizing someone's grieving process

and that challenge that it presents to a lot of people - "i can't listen to this" "i can't criticize this" "i can't believe he did this" "ugh this piece of art should be less raw and more about healing" - is very much a part of what makes it so compelling / interesting / "good" (beyond the words and melodies and performance and recording).

xxpost sorry imago, that wasn't directed at you at all. i didn't even know it was you. truth is, i just really struggle w/ ppl who view their opinion as fact. i have a problem with the concept, but not with people using it to discuss music. (i don't know if that makes any sense but w/e)

In liner notes Elverum wrote, "...A crow did look at me. There is an echo of Geneviève that still rings, a reminder of the love and infinity beneath all of this obliteration." I find that one line much more satisfying than most of the album's rambling, seemingly unedited diary style lyrics. It's the stuff therapists are paid the big bucks to listen to, or sympathetic friends and family, not what audiences usually pay to hear repeatedly. But apparently this is what some people want, so you all can look forward to much more of it. So much for striving to to evoke love and infinity.

There is absolutely great art out there about grieving. Not a music example, just something I recently saw is the Patton Oswalt special where he brought up his recent loss. It got a little raw in moments, but the experience was not excruciating, he pulled off a great show.

results will include live albums, which RYMers LOVE

― President Keyes

rymers have been having the same fucking argument over this album incidentally so it might be appropriate to put aside any condescension for the time being?

fastnbulbous you are on some mighty fine goofballs