sufjan is certainly more overrated than the mt eerie album. for example on rym 'a crow looked at me' is #4 on the 2017 chart, which feels fine tbh, but #1 is fuckin 'carrie & lowell live' -_-
― imago, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
OK I guess I'm thinking the albums in question all have a notable mix of (varying degrees of) grief + "confessional"
xp to Brad
― Evan, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:51 (six years ago) link
yeah i get why it came up in the discussion
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
the sufjan album is beautiful to this particular non-sufjan-believer but i think talking about these albums in terms of how "overrated" they are is misguided and uninteresting
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 1 December 2017 19:53 (six years ago) link
well fine. just illustrating the point that ACLAM isn't as, um, acclaimed as fnb is saying
― imago, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:54 (six years ago) link
what does checking "live" mean on the rym search?
― Mordy, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:54 (six years ago) link
results will include live albums, which RYMers LOVE
― President Keyes, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
oh that makes sense. that's crazy!
― Mordy, Friday, 1 December 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
I get why someone might find Crow gauche and awkward because it feels like an intrusion on someone processing grief, and I've listened to it and thought it might be evidence of someone not thinking straight and making an odd decision to release it. But I'm drawn to it, and for the same reasons. Its awkwardness and nakedness are structural and what makes it such a powerful statement. I can't think we'll ever see the likes of it again; that's a good enough reason to salute it.
― The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Friday, 1 December 2017 20:02 (six years ago) link
One of the producers of today's Sound Opinions picked it as his choice for album of the year, and suffering through the clip brought me flashbacks of the album. It's currently #32 in the AOTY aggregate, which seems quite high, given the hundreds and hundreds of albums out there.
"Ventriloquizing a dead body" seriously? It's pretty clear that I was not doing that. No one knows what the dead would have thought, but it was certainly a possibility. That's all I said. Raise your hand if you'd like to be eulogized that way.
Yes, the album at times accurately captures harrowing moments of despair, hollowness, and endless mundanity. I just disagree that it's good music. I'm not going to spell it out for you all beyond the fact that some people will be going through a similar experience sooner than most. I believe there are many better options that deal with grief that are more balanced and healing, that's all.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:06 (six years ago) link
Raise your hand if you'd like to be eulogized that way.
I for one cannot imagine giving a fuck though admittedly I am not dying, to my knowledge
― Simon H., Friday, 1 December 2017 20:10 (six years ago) link
having a poet describe some of the things that i could never put into words with such directness has definitely helped me view my own grief in a different way. and for that alone it is an excellent piece of art, whether you want to call it "music" or "spoken word poetry with accompaniment"
― scoff walker (diamonddave85), Friday, 1 December 2017 20:17 (six years ago) link
At least you know what should go on your tombstone.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
a tombstone? in this economy?
― Simon H., Friday, 1 December 2017 20:21 (six years ago) link
In bas-relief using your ashes? That would be pretty metal.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:23 (six years ago) link
thanks fnb for inspiring me to relisten to A Crow Looked at Me and reminding me that it needs to be on my eventual ballot
― Simon H., Friday, 1 December 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
Is Arcade Fire's Funeral one of these grief albums?
― President Keyes, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
to go way back - that Ibeyi album is a HUGE leap forward and I was really surprised by how good it was.
Jonny Nash has been a hero this year - the Gaussian Curve album, his solo album and the collab with Suzanne Kraft as mentioned, but he's also got a new one recently out with Lindsay Todd called Fauna Mapping. I think everything the label Melody As Truth is releasing just now is flawless.
― boxedjoy, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
this thread took a mind-boggling turn while i was in a meeting
― alpine static, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
You're mad that critics are inclined to rate an album higher due to sympathy? Cynicism motivates you to point this out... beyond that is there any reason to bother mentioning it?
― Evan, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:36 (six years ago) link
I'm not mad or cynical, but you seem angry.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
I'm not! I'm just trying to figure out what's to gain by speculating critics are overrating confessional albums by grieving artists.
― Evan, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:46 (six years ago) link
Apparently a handful of insulting posts! It was simply an observation.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:53 (six years ago) link
Boxedjoy otm about Jonny Nash. The collab with Suzanne Kraft really sounds a lot like Alva Noto minus the glitch.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 1 December 2017 20:57 (six years ago) link
I recently discovered Kraft's 2014 album and was entranced
― sleeve, Friday, 1 December 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
I found Crow raw and scary and somehow NOT maudlin but accurate and evocative of how grieving fucks with you. fnb, you don't have to share the sentiment but you gotta acknowledge that there's a critical mass of people that heard it different from you.
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 1 December 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
i understand where a theory that critics overrate confessional albums by grieving artists is coming from. i definitely think there can be an element of elevating a work like CROW because of its circumstances and presentation. someone else up there said it: Phil just getting this made and out is worthy of "points" - i get that.
and i agree with that! he does get points! to be clear, i'm not on FNB's side here, just saying i could see it as a thing.
(that said, i don't really believe in overrated/underrated. if you rate it, that's how it's rated. nobody gets to set the "true" value of the album, against which other opinions are measured.)
― alpine static, Friday, 1 December 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
overrated/underrated is an unhelpful idea in criticism generally but it certainly applies on a personal level - at times we all surely think to ourselves 'why does nobody like this?' or 'why do so many people like that?'. agree we shouldn't really be using it on here though and I'm sorry for doing so, even if it was to sort-of defend mt eerie's honour
― imago, Friday, 1 December 2017 21:15 (six years ago) link
Using personal tragedy as a jumping-off point for creating art is a totally viable and useful thing that has made things like Maus and Fun Home and A Year Of Magical Thinking and Carrie & Lowell
I don't think the problem is the process itself
My issue with Crow is that I find it gruelling and not-particularly-useful to me personally as a piece of art
Added to this is the fact that I feel unable to actually access any critical faculties in order to express my why it does nothing for me
Because it feels as if criticizing Crow is akin to criticizing someone's grieving process
― flamboyant goon tie included, Friday, 1 December 2017 23:13 (six years ago) link
and that challenge that it presents to a lot of people - "i can't listen to this" "i can't criticize this" "i can't believe he did this" "ugh this piece of art should be less raw and more about healing" - is very much a part of what makes it so compelling / interesting / "good" (beyond the words and melodies and performance and recording).
xxpost sorry imago, that wasn't directed at you at all. i didn't even know it was you. truth is, i just really struggle w/ ppl who view their opinion as fact. i have a problem with the concept, but not with people using it to discuss music. (i don't know if that makes any sense but w/e)
― alpine static, Friday, 1 December 2017 23:36 (six years ago) link
In liner notes Elverum wrote, "...A crow did look at me. There is an echo of Geneviève that still rings, a reminder of the love and infinity beneath all of this obliteration." I find that one line much more satisfying than most of the album's rambling, seemingly unedited diary style lyrics. It's the stuff therapists are paid the big bucks to listen to, or sympathetic friends and family, not what audiences usually pay to hear repeatedly. But apparently this is what some people want, so you all can look forward to much more of it. So much for striving to to evoke love and infinity.
There is absolutely great art out there about grieving. Not a music example, just something I recently saw is the Patton Oswalt special where he brought up his recent loss. It got a little raw in moments, but the experience was not excruciating, he pulled off a great show.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 1 December 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
― President Keyes
rymers have been having the same fucking argument over this album incidentally so it might be appropriate to put aside any condescension for the time being?
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Saturday, 2 December 2017 00:40 (six years ago) link
fastnbulbous you are on some mighty fine goofballs
― brimstead, Saturday, 2 December 2017 01:06 (six years ago) link
Xpost lol I only meant that live albums dominate some of those year lists if you don't filter them out
― President Keyes, Saturday, 2 December 2017 03:23 (six years ago) link
The Mount Eerie album reminded me of an essay I read by a fiction writer (Wells Tower maybe?) about the death of his young child. One of the things he talked about was people trying to find some kind of meaning, which he rejected. There was no lesson. It did not make us stronger.
― President Keyes, Saturday, 2 December 2017 03:33 (six years ago) link
Kamasi Washington also seems absent on most of these lists, perhaps somewhat surprising since the Epic was such a crossover smash and "Truth" is a jam just as decent as anything on the Epic iirc
― niels, Saturday, 2 December 2017 09:09 (six years ago) link
It's an EP though right?
― Doran, Saturday, 2 December 2017 10:01 (six years ago) link
i think Truth will be on track lists, but the rest of the EP didn't do that much for me.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 2 December 2017 10:59 (six years ago) link
Forever Records know what's up
https://forever-records.com/blogs/news/our-top-10-of-2017
― imago, Saturday, 2 December 2017 11:29 (six years ago) link
This is the first thing I've read about that album that's made me want to listen to it.
― Matt DC, Saturday, 2 December 2017 11:52 (six years ago) link
re: Forever Records - that Happy Meals release looks interesting.
― MikoMcha, Saturday, 2 December 2017 11:54 (six years ago) link
Haven’t heard it but their debut from a couple of years back was great in a low-key kind of way
― damian green is people (NickB), Saturday, 2 December 2017 12:12 (six years ago) link
It's dead good if you fancy a bit of kosmische ambient droney type stuff
Happy Meals <3
― paolo, Saturday, 2 December 2017 12:32 (six years ago) link
even though it feels like Happy Meals don't ever say no to a show in Glasgow, every time I've caught them I've been really impressed
― boxedjoy, Saturday, 2 December 2017 13:32 (six years ago) link
Not sure why AOTY didn't include the Norman records list yet, and while they did put Mount Eerie at the top, they are also donating all profits to the Candlelighters cancer charity.
https://www.normanrecords.com/features/albums-of-the-year-2017
I'm sampling stuff from the Classic Rock list right now, which is pretty bonkers, but entertaining.
― Fastnbulbous, Saturday, 2 December 2017 16:34 (six years ago) link
http://www.gorillavsbear.net/gorilla-vs-bears-albums-of-2017/
Gorilla vs Bear always make interesting lists imo
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Monday, 4 December 2017 01:40 (six years ago) link
very cool list, lots to check out
01 YAEJI | EPs02 KELLY LEE OWENS | Kelly Lee Owens03 TOPS | Sugar at the Gate04 ALDOUS HARDING | Party05 LAUREL HALO | Dust06 SHABAZZ PALACES | Quazarz07 PLAYBOI CARTI | Playboi Carti08 FAYE WEBSTER | Faye Webster09 KING KRULE | The OOZ10 MEGA BOG | Happy Together11 TORO Y MOI | Boo Boo12 VINCE STAPLES | Big Fish Theory13 NITE JEWEL | Real High14 YUMI ZOUMA | Willowbank15 ALESSANDRO CORTINI | Avanti16 ALVVAYS | Antisocialites17 FEVER RAY | Plunge18 DEMEN | Nektyr19 MEN I TRUST | Tailwhip EP20 HATER | You Tried21 HOOPS | Routines22 KEDR LIVANSKIY | Ariadna23 JULIA LUCILLE | Chthonic24 ONEOHTRIX POINT NEVER | Good Time OST25 JULIE BYRNE | Not Even Happiness26 ANNA OF THE NORTH | Lovers27 SHE-DEVILS | She-Devils28 SZA | Ctrl29 WASHED OUT | Mister Mellow30 EQUIKNOXX | Colón Man31 MOUNT KIMBIE | Love What Survives32 BLUE HAWAII | Tenderness33 HAND HABITS | Wildly Idle (Humble Before the Void)34 BIG THIEF | Capacity35 KENDRICK LAMAR | DAMN.36 SASSY 009 | do you mind37 KARA-LIS COVERDALE | Grafts38 YOU’LL NEVER GET TO HEAVEN | Images39 DJ SPORTS | Modern Species40 JLIN | Black Origami41 GRIZZLY BEAR | Painted Ruins42 KELELA | Take Me Apart43 KAITLYN AURELIA SMITH | The Kid44 LUKE REED | Won’t Be There45 ANGEL OLSEN | Phases46 CHOPSTARS x BARRY JENKINS | Purple Moonlight47 MOLLY BURCH | Please Be Mine48 JOHNNY JEWEL | Windswept49 JOSEPH SHABASON | Aytche50 LANA DEL REY | Lust For Life51 DRAB MAJESTY | The Demonstration52 AMBER MARK | 3:33 am53 EXIT SOMEONE | Dry Your Eyes54 CHARLI XCX | Number 1 Angel55 CARLA DAL FORNO | The Garden56 MOLLY NILSSON | Imaginations57 JOHN MAUS | Screen Memories58 NMESH | Pharma59 SUSANNE SUNDFØR | Music For People in Trouble60 RAMZi | Phobiza Noite Vol. 2
― Simon H., Monday, 4 December 2017 01:47 (six years ago) link
She-Devils record was pretty good!
― sleeve, Monday, 4 December 2017 01:55 (six years ago) link
http://www.thefader.com/2017/12/03/best-songs-2017-apple-music-spotify-playlist/tay-k-the-race
Finally, a more diverse/pop-oriented list! And girlpool at 19! Not sure about that #1 though, which i admittedly haven't heard
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Monday, 4 December 2017 02:21 (six years ago) link
Whoops, that link goes right to the bottom. Here's it starting at 101 if you like a countdown
http://www.thefader.com/2017/12/03/best-songs-2017-apple-music-spotify-playlist
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Monday, 4 December 2017 02:22 (six years ago) link