IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

and then:

house of blue lights – wow this is awful.

when you wish upon a star – i have no need to hear this again, but, sure, it's kinda nice in its own way.

in a sentimental mood – fits his voice nicely.

heartbreak hotel – oh god no.

all shook up – this is a good bar-band cover. good to know in case that piano man gig doesn't work out.

mid-70s bernie taupin lyrics would improve "that's not her style" IMMENSELY. whatever his other faults or later sins, taupin was not generic and that's the biggest problem here apart from the overblown production and length. i've been getting the hook in my head a lot over the past week so there is the basis for a good song here.

"alexa" has proven to be the real earworm though, and its bleak watery chill (borrowed from "edmund fitzgerald" obv but enhanced by the interesting, evocative references to the giants in the canyons and "trawling atlantis") has definitely given me some feels. still think it could be better - "allentown" is, for example. but it's good.

agreed about his voice on "leningrad." that and "and so it goes" are reasonable and appealing ways for billy joel to sing at age 40. some of the other songs, not so much, but i also sometimes feel like he's struggling to be heard over the din of the arrangements. not dissimilar to me, last night at karaoke with no monitor and a garbage sound system generally, shredding my throat on "you may be right" and doing nobody in the audience any favors in the process.

having done the "twofer" album series i could imagine a fascinating if deeply unappealing playlist consisting ONLY of Side B songs that nobody cares about. probably tons of "horrible 70s album title" artists would suffer badly given similar treatment, of course.

mid-70s bernie taupin lyrics would improve "that's not her style" IMMENSELY

truth.

"In a Sentimental Mood" is the only one of those four covers I would keep. He uses a very natural, pleasant voice

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River of Dreams is Billy Joel's twelfth and (to date) final pop album. Recorded at several New York area locations in 1992 and 1993, it was released in August of 1993. The worldwide success of the title track, and rave reviews in places like Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly, helped it top the album charts in the US, Australia and New Zealand (and get to #2 or #3 in the UK, Austria, Germany, and Zimbabwe). In the US, it was certified five times platinum, and was nominated for an Album of the Year Grammy along with Automatic For The People, Ten Summoner's Tales and Kamakiriad. (The statue went to the unstoppable soundtrack to The Bodyguard, which outsold all of those put together, and then some.)

Some backstory: in 1989, finding himself mysteriously cash-poor for one of the best-selling artists of all time, Billy hired John Eastman (Linda McCartney's brother) to conduct a financial investigation into the work of Frank Weber - Elizabeth's brother, Alexa's godfather, and Billy's manager or co-manager since 1979. Citing fraud and embezzlement through sketchy investments and racehorse insurance scams, Joel fired Weber and sued him for $90 million. By 1992, he was also suing his own lawyer, Allen Grubman, who had come in via Weber and, allegedly, was in on the sketchy transactions. Neither case went to trial and it's not really clear how much if anything Billy ever recouped out-of-court. (Today his net worth is estimated at around $180 million, which puts him in the top forty richest musicians in the world, so I guess he eventually made the numbers work.) The point is that all of this bummed Billy out, and is usually cited as part of this album's emotional backstory. From the "Talks About" Sirius clips, here's Billy:

I had been pretty badly burned by my ex-manager, and I'd kinda lost faith in my ability to judge people anymore. I.. was just kind of lost at that point, but I think there were some good songs that came out of that. I kinda reclaimed my faith in humanity again by the time I finished writing the album, and I think that's the arc, what that album is. It's a man who has become completely disillusioned and has lost faith and is not sure of anything, and finds solid ground again because of the things that are really important - his kid, his friends, his ability in himself and uh.... defined the really substantive things in like that you hold on to you, that get you through.

The players vary from track to track. Liberty DeVitto appears only on "Shades of Grey," Richie Cannata returns on sax for "A Minor Variation," and Color Me Badd are heard on "All About Soul." Though Billy self-produces on "Shades of Grey" (I'm guessing maybe this one was recorded earlier) the rest of the production is credited to L.A. Sound session fiend and multi-instrumentalist Danny "Kootch" Kortchmar. You know his playing from the key albums of James Taylor, Carole King, Harry Nilsson, Warren Zevon and many others. ("Harry Nilsson, Warren Z, Red China, Jimmy T...") As producer, he surely hit his apex with Don Henley's two early-eighties blockbusters, I Can't Stand Still and Building the Perfect Beast. By the time of this album, his most recent noteworthy credits were some Spinal Tap albums, a late-period Joe Cocker effort, and Jon Bon Jovi's Blaze of Glory. He'd also lent a hand to The Bodyguard, producing Curtis Stigers's cover of "Peace, Love, and Understanding."

The cover art, by the way, comes from a large-format painting by Christie Brinkley; the sleeves for the singles are other excerpts from the same canvas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duQIG2nKEH8

No Man's Land, a lamentation of suburban sprawl, opens the album. In Europe, it got released as a single; it peaked at #50 in the UK. There were two videos, but for whatever reason the proper one cannot be found on YouTube so you only get the later live version. It does brings out the bass, and Liberty's drum-face.

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Helluva better kickoff than we've got from the last two. Swear it sounds like another song, though I couldn't tell you which one. Almost -almost - a "Turn on the News" vibe going on here. Even that repeated line at 3:53 sounds familiar from somewhere else. If the Smithereens had released this one in 1989, it would've topped the alternative charts for six weeks.

But really, I'm so glad this guy is back:

They roll the sidewalks up, at night this place goes underground
Thanks to the condo kings, there’s cable now in Zombietown

Even if it does sound like he's got a bit of a cold on the verses.

I heard "No Man's Land" on AOR radio in fall '93. The arena rock cliches are better handled on this album, (thanks, Kootch!).

Swear it sounds like another song, though I couldn't tell you which one.

The intro is "Life During Wartime" and the chorus is "In God's Country."

"In God's Country" definitely OTM. I can hear a little LDW in there too.

My dad was gifted this album when it came out, so I have some vague memories of it. Remember it being a bit weirder than the singles that I knew Billy Joel for. This is a nice kickoff, with the crunchy production giving it some bite. His delivery is a bit hard to compare to other songs he's done, but I was into it by the chorus

Smithereens comparison otm

Ahh, I've been waiting for this ever since we finished up with An Innocent Man. The only Billy album I bought new upon release (or within a month or two of its release, at least). I still remember taking shit from one of my grade 10 classmates for listening to this ("my MOM listens to him!") and being amused by my biology teacher who looked, to me, a bit like Billy Joel and once bragged to the class about having tickets to this tour.

Anyway, it may be the nostalgia talking, but as far as aging-boomer-rails-against-yuppies-and-corpratism songs go, this one ain't bad. It may be just a skip and a jump away from the Eagles' appalling "Get Over It," but Billy is raging against systems, not people. Also, the production is beefier and less hollow sounding than the frankly ugly sound that marred most of Storm Front.

My memories of this album - I was already a 19-year-old college freshman with Pavement, Sebadoh and Screaming Trees in my trusty Case Logic carrying case. Over the summer, I worked a temp job in this guy's garage, collating advertising flyers. We listened to Top 40 (except for the Rush Limbaugh show) all day, and the semi-title track repeated at least once an hour. It, and Elton John's Lion King song are forever burned into my psyche of those little pink finger dishes we used to keep our fingers from blistering on the newsprint.

I've come around to enjoy both though!

Also, I'm pretty sure that the timing works out so that "Lolitas and suburban lust" lands as an explicit reference to Amy Fisher, no?

Ah, the early 90s...

This was present in our house - I can picture it on the top of the bookshelf where my sister kept her CDs - but I have no idea when it arrived (one of our first CDs? or a late 90s yard sale pickup?) and I cannot remember *ever* hearing it played. Certainly not by me, which is amazing considering my love of GH1&2. Something about the cover just said "grownups, boring, stay away." Now I'd actually say it's one of his best album covers (though the back is just a BIT "Off The Ground"), certainly refreshing after the last couple of dud sleeves.

Agreed that this is a strong opening, especially that the production is far less grating... a much more defensible form of rock. I'd still appreciate a little less stuff in the mix but it feels much more like a band playing live, and I think Billy is an artist that just clicks into place better as the leader of a band than as the vocalist-songwriter that backing tracks have been arranged around. Sonically I think he's going for maybe Mellencamp or somebody more than U2. (The prechorus reminds me of Aerosmith's "Rag Doll," but more for the tune than the sound.) Obviously by 1993 this was not exactly fashionable rock but it had an audience still up for arena shows with fifteen people on stage.

The length is still a problem but the lyrics have regained some specificity - as in his other "protest" songs it seems that when he personally cares about a cause, he puts more work into getting the words right. What does push it towards clueless "Get Over It" conserva-rock terrritory, for me, is that the "they've ruined the old home-place" screed elides the role of Billy Joel himself as a rich guy who bought a glass house in No Man's Land as early as the late 70s - gee, wonder WHY there ain't no island left for islanders like me. A more interesting song would be shaded by at least some self-awareness; once you're part of the problem it's a lot harder to do a "Don't It Make You Want To Go Home?" type lyric.

Does the "sounds like he has a cold" vocal delivery presage Green Day?

just going back to this:

We need a Ferry listening thread for Doc Casino

because FOR REAL wtf

Kerplunk! was already out! I would lovvvve to find a Billy clip where he's like No Man's Land, that was a song on the River of Dreams album. There was a band becoming popular at that time called Green Day, they had a really great sound that was kind of punk, kind of what I would call garage rock, and the front man - we used to talk about bands having a 'front man' - this guy Billy, he would sing kinda like.... (starts banging out chords to "2,000 Light Years Away")...

hahaha I am kind of famous for having inexplicable huge gaps in my listening

are we talking about Bryan Ferry solo or Roxy Music too

Hey guys, this has been bugging me all morning but I finally figured out the song it sounds like most of all. And that is INXS, "The One Thing."

https://youtu.be/XJyKTNdPL5s

Not a conscious copy, I don't think, but sonically and melodically very similar.

give us this day our daily discount outlet merchandise!!!!

are we talking about Bryan Ferry solo or Roxy Music too

― Οὖτις,

Ferry solo would be fun

roxy music too!!! which is also wacky cause I adore the first few solo eno records. just never was inspired to check em out.

but tbh it seems like the next dedicated listening type thread (whether comprehensive or selective) should not be another boomer whites act?

idk what the criteria is for these dedicated listening threads - seems like with the Eagles, Elton and now BJ we've been focusing on huge acts that lack a certain critical appreciation (which is def NOT the case with Roxy/Ferry, and deservedly so cuz the catalog is vastly superior to the other three imo)

The cover art, by the way, comes from a large-format painting by Christie Brinkley; the sleeves for the singles are other excerpts from the same canvas.

haha interesting i always liked this album cover it always had a kinda nutty "outsider artist" vibe to me

"No Man's Land" is good, best gut bucket rocker he's had in a long time, kinda hyped delivery that throws back to the Glass Curtain era

DON'T LET THEM PUT YOU DOWN: The Official ILM Track-By-Track ROD STEWART 1975-1988 Listening Thread

forgot about that one

meanwhile, thinking about RoD and Smithereens and Billy Joel Armstrong, i guess this album could surprise me but playing the odds, i am mildly disappointed in advance that it is not a series of style exercises inspired by Nirvana, 10,000 Maniacs, Faith No More, R.E.M., and Tori Amos. probably to billy's credit as a grownup that he did not attempt a Glass Houses II but that would have been fascinating.

Green Day formed in 86 and had already released 2 albums by this time

I knew better than to have looked this up.

https://i.imgur.com/BcXZSFc.png

my god..........

no man's land - this is billy joel back in hardcore billy joel territory and i unequivocally love this. it rocks, it's catchy, and he's speaking to his core constituency the same way ray davies was speaking to his core constituency with "come dancing," which is the first song that this brought to mind this morning even though they're very different songs. the daily discount outlet merchandise. the multiplex. the miles and miles of parking space. the condo kings. these are the thing that billy has been warning us (and himself) about since roundabout streetlife serenade, and now these are the things the poor captain of the downeaster alexa is fated to see every time he comes back ashore. i could hardly blame him if all he wants to do is reminisce about the place that's no longer there where his sister used to go dancing, or gripe about amy fischer and cocaine.

his best side one track one since "allentown." which was also about how everything's turned to shit around here. that time with unemployment lines. this time with volvos and valentines.

"god help us all if we're to blame for their unanswered prayers" is a good line.

The intro is "Life During Wartime" and the chorus is "In God's Country."

i'm still trying to figure out what the pre-chorus ("now we're gonna get the big business...") reminds me of.

I thought that was the "Life During Wartime" bit (though admittedly, its vague).

also,

the daily discount outlet merchandise. the multiplex. the miles and miles of parking space. the condo kings. these are the thing that billy has been warning us (and himself) about since roundabout streetlife serenade, and now these are the things the poor captain of the downeaster alexa is fated to see every time he comes back ashore. i could hardly blame him if all he wants to do is reminisce about the place that's no longer there where his sister used to go dancing, or gripe about amy fischer and cocaine.

yes! This is exactly what makes this a more sincere and justified take that most songs of this stripe. I buy it.

I thought that was the "Life During Wartime" bit (though admittedly, its vague).

i can sort of see that but i'm hearing something specific in the back of my head that i just can't place. this is going to bother me.

as far as songs decrying american suburbia go, i do agree that coming from billy is feels more authentic and hits harder, since he's such a suburban artist at heart and was invested in strong island suburbs the same way bruce was in his mythical jersey shore

or in general most suburban rants are coming from a place of contempt not mourning

hahaha I am kind of famous for having inexplicable huge gaps in my listening

i have personally fact checked this. it's true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HP_uDksJu0

The Great Wall of China is Billy's kiss-off to Frank Weber, with regard to the aforementioned financial and legal kerfluffle. I hear a few shades of the Beatles, via the Nylon Curtain approach to them anyway.

I like the chorus and arrangement on this quite a bit and lyrically again he seems to be on his game...off to a good start on this album

yeah i like this song too!

def feel the nylon curtain vibe
these first 2 songs kinda feel less of that bad late 80s place that i cannot stand (ie most of stormfront outside of the killer songs)

I feel like in general early 90s records sound better than late 80s ones? Like common sense had regained a foothold after a period of gonzo use of the digital kitchen sink? But I'm not really an expert here and the difference could just be punting Jones for Kootch.

this one gives me all sorts of michael penn power-pop vibes. super earwormy.

the lyrics are a little (or a lot) on-the-nose and lead to some weird, un-billy phrasing, in both the way he packs a few extra syllables into the choruses and the quirky way he's breaking up his phrases in the verses ("somewordsare / notheardtill" "yourrolewas / protective"), like this is a lyric he really really needs to get off his chest, no matter what it's gonna take to do so. take that, mr. ex-manager. AHH-AHH-AAAAH-AH!

see also this thread, especially nabisco's posts: Is there a name for that genre of turn-of-the-90s pop-rock with the positive vibes, huge guitar leads, and gated drums?

feel like this album is on the mid-90s side of the glossy production ravine. it's not quite the unplugged or unplugged-inspired sound of later back-to-basics efforts like Bringing Down The Horse, but it's a lot warmer and a lot more band-like than Storm Front. see also Off The Ground versus Flowers in the Dirt, etc.

From the POV of someone who enjoys his music, I sure am glad he got all pissed and jaded again.

The Michael Penn comparison is interesting. I can definitely hear it in the chorus, which sounds like at least two of the songs on his album Resigned that I can recall offhand. Penn would never have been this snotty or aggressive in his verses, though. You can associate a lot of things with Billy, but I'm not sure "positive vibes" is one of them.

I know its early in the proceedings here, but I am relieved at how good this album is still sounding to me, so far. Not having played it in years, I was expecting to smile at the title track and be bored by the rest of it, but I actually quite like the two big rock numbers that open up the record ("big rock numbers" being the turn that Billy took on The Bridge and Storm Front that damed those albums for me--well, that and shit production and songwriting). I know, from glancing at the track listing, that there are two songs on this album that make me cringe, but both of those songs already sounded bad to me in '93, and I (otherwise) loved the album back then, so we'll see.