hall of fame, next vote...

ted simmons was a vote short. marvin miller was 5 short.

what a stupid hall of fame, i don't even know why i pay attention

Trammell getting in is quite awesome. Morris is the opposite.

Sports outlets should send only women to cover his induction and interview him

good ol' jack morris. he sure did eat a lot innings for some decent teams and not get injured and did really well in the world series that one time

all kidding aside his best single season WAR was almost as good as Braves ace Kevin Millwood's best.

I guess you could take solstice that Jack Morris getting in probably makes Curt Schilling mad.

I mean the baseball literati response is them looking forward to another 50 dudes being good enough for the HOF now including Kevin Brown

Kevin Brown iirc did not have a bushy gamer mustache, total false grail, so he's out

Trammell aside, worst baseball weekend in the history of December

Alan Trammell getting in is the VC at its best: honoring an all-time great the BBWAA just missed.

Jack Morris getting in is the VC at its typical: inducting a player who, while very good, clearly fell short of HoF standards.

Marvin Miller not getting in is the VC at its worst.

— Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) December 10, 2017

seriously voters are so swayed by a catchy name and a mustache. Dude was sub-chuck finley (no shame, chuck was hall of very good at his best!)

Maybe Luis Tiante and Jim Kaat or Tommy John will now get the call.

Mickey Lolich out pitched Bob Freaking Gibson in his 7th game.

better pitchers who were contemporaries of Jack Morris and who won't make the Hall: Stieb, Saberhagen, Gooden, Cone, Viola, Valenzuela, Key, Reuschel, Steve Rogers...but lots of injuries in the mix there, so they have to give it to the durable second-tier guy...

Ron Guidry and Mark Langston too. At their peak, vastly better.

The "Modern Era" is supposed to cover players whose main contributions were between 1970-1987. Morris' Game 7 shouldn't count!

"Now I'm getting analyzed by a bunch of numbers and things that didn't exist when I played," (Morris) said. "Had they existed, maybe I would have had a better understanding of what it would have meant to not pitch through pain, to not go deeper into games on nights that I told my manager 'I'm fine' when I wasn't. But I don't regret doing that because if you go to the wall and never try to push down the wall, you'll never know if you can."

Yep, today's pitchers can use "numbers" to hide the fact that they don't have any guts. Welcome to the HOF Jack Morris, you'll fit right in.

Enjoyed watching him pitch -- fond memory of watching his no-hitter -- but I don't recall ever thinking he was a potential Hall candidate. Don't recall any media chatter about his chances, either. It was all Whitaker and Trammell. Even the bullshit stats can be used against him. "Winningest pitcher of the '80s" but I think he was second-losingest too. Career ERA nearly 4.00.

All-time sucker for "I don't talk to women when I'm naked unless they're on top of me or I'm on top of them."

Posnanski should have something good on this. He's written approximately 700,000 words on Morris and the HOF the past decade.

Radio report by a non-sports guy this morning was priceless. He said that Morris will "likely go in wearing a Tigers hat"--yeah, I would think so--and that Trammell would also "likely go in wearing a Tigers hat"; that's an even better bet, unless he opts for one of his minor league teams. He then said that Bonds and Clemens missed again, seemingly oblivious to the context.

Even the bullshit stats can be used against him. "Winningest pitcher of the '80s" but I think he was second-losingest too.

Not that it matters, but I wonder if he'd still be the winningest if you shift that one year either way, say '79-88 or '81-90. That distinction may be extra dubious.

(Meaning someone like Spahn or Clemens is going to hold that 10-year-window lead for a long period of time; Morris may just be in sync with the calendar.)

Bartolo Colon and Brad Radke for HOF

not while Kevin Tapani is on the outside looking in, amigo

i'm not as mad about morris as most people are. he does have a point that much (though certainly not all) of the case against him is based on ways of understanding the game that were not around during his time. furthermore, it seems as though current HOFers want him in their club. obviously he shouldn't be in (and there are others who didn't get in who have better cases), but given that he was elected by people in the game rather than the writers, it's not the end of the world to me

I see, so it's a smoking club now.

This badly needs a Cooperstown rewrite... "Blow it up before ANDY PETTITTE makes a speech!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oLI9JH5v-E

i don't really have a good perspective on a lot of these guys but it's insane to me that marvin miller still didn't get in

when i was growing up as a huge baseball fan, i never thought of Jack Morris as a top tier pitcher and i was OBSESSED with baseball. like the players who were the best were pretty clear to me: Schmidt, Henderson, Raines, Murphy, Boggs, Sandberg, Winfield, Ripken, Murray, etc. the pitchers i remember were guys like the ones i mentioned upthread, i mean Dave Stieb towered above Morris as a pitcher, he just didn't have those pesky wins.

esp passing up the opportunity to put his plaque opposite BOWIE FUCKING KUHN'S xp

zero expectations, the HOF is a shitshow

Don't disagree with anyone that Jack Morris shouldn't be in the HOF--he shouldn't--but I do have a different recollection of his career: my memory is that he was usually, back then, discussed as a viable candidate (the reevaluation came later). And I agree entirely with Kevin's post: I'd rather be happy for the deserving people who get in than make a big deal out of the (more and more) occasional undeserving players who sneak through. In general, the Hall is getting better, not worse--not immediately, but that is happening.

Who would be today's Jack Morris? I am thinking of Cole Hamels.

john lackey

ah yes, good one.

I'd say CC Sabathia. CC's better--he starts his career in the PED era, and hits his peak coming out of that--but if he does hang around long enough to go in, it'll be with a lot of wins, a comparatively high ERA (again, needs to be adjusted), and a reputation as an inning-eater who was never (or rarely) among the top half-dozen starters in the game, but was among the Top 10-15 for many years.

There is a 5 year period between (2007-2011), that I would consider to be Sabathia's peak, in which he was second only to Halladay in fWAR. On top of that, he was arguably the best left-handed pitcher of that period.

you are doing CC a disservice

i know this isn't the best comparison to morris, but just for fun

bartolo colon

actually, maybe it's a decent comp?

https://i.imgur.com/aGxXEKh.png
https://i.imgur.com/0xnyo2d.png

and of course, the most important information of all:

https://i.imgur.com/I7pujkO.png

(xposts) Probably, yeah--in terms of peak, anyway. For their careers, their ERA+ is more comparable (117-105 for CC), but still a decent margin for CC.

I noticed Colon on Morris's Similarity Score list.

OK, Morris was the THIRD-losingest pitcher of the '80s. Clancy (126), Tanana (122), Morris (119).

Wins '77-'86: Guidry. '78-'87 through '83-'92: all Morris. '84-'93: Clemens/Viola

Morris never placed higher than fifth in AL ERA. Where he placed during qualifying seasons: 5th, 41st, 15th, 33rd, 10th, 20th, 9th, 6th, 5th, 26th, 37th, 34th, 16th, 27th. And of course his last two seasons, both non-qualifying, were flat-out terrible.

Morris never finished higher than third for the Cy Young.

Maybe if there had been something like a Hefty Cinch-Sak Durability Award during these years, Morris would've been considered recognized enough.

You never know with the Veteran's Committee, but I think he may be the last pitcher of his kind to go in. You'll need to have at least a reasonable sabermetric case from now on--"narrative" and all that will still factor in (Bumgarner), but you'll need both.

CC won a Cy Young and finished in the top five another four times. Outside of five (or maybe six) seasons, he wasn't a *great* pitcher and I could see that counting against his HOF candidacy. But he was/is a much better pitcher than Morris.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ2QHcOX0AAY0Ha.jpg

LOL

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ2QHcOX0AAY0Ha.jpg

I played in the Freehan and Kaline leagues when I was a teenager. The conference (or whatever) recently added Morris and Trammell leagues. I don’t know anything about baseball statistics but it makes sense from a little league perspective.

I realize that’s likely only interesting to Andy K.

Cliff Lee nearly equaled Morris' WAR in ~1700 fewer innings

do we have a roster of this year's Vets Committee?

Each year's Committee is different and is selected by the Hall Board of Directors. This year's panel includes six Hall of Fame players: George Brett, Rod Carew, Dennis Eckersley, Don Sutton, Dave Winfield and Robin Yount in addition to Hall of Fame manager Bobby Cox and Hall of Fame executive John Schuerholz, both of the Braves.

Mets general manager Sandy Alderson, former Blue Jays president Paul Beeston, Reds president Bob Castellini, Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt, Royals chairman David Glass, veteran BBWAA members Bob Elliott and Jayson Stark and historian Steve Hirdt of the Elias Sport Bureau make up the remainder of the group.

https://www.mlb.com/news/modern-era-committee-prepares-for-hall-vote/c-263109628

I played in the Freehan and Kaline leagues when I was a teenager. The conference (or whatever) recently added Morris and Trammell leagues. I don’t know anything about baseball statistics but it makes sense from a little league perspective.

Kids born around 2025 will play in the Inge league.

Frick award to Costas