Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

I wonder when someone on the internet is going to discover why Tupac was in prison

kobe changed his number so all is forgiven

Ben effing Roethlisberger

Sean Penn, where art thou?

At the risk of being pelted with rocks and garbage, I'm wondering why the bartender didn't toss the drink after noticing Miller's suspicious behavior when Miller wasn't looking at it rather than wait for her to come back (and possibly drink it if he happened to be busy then). He could have given her another when she was at the bar looking for her drink.

maybe he was busy when it happened

I had the same thought, but rationalized it as her possibility telling the story poorly/getting some detail wrong.

Also if he makes it and hands it to her in her presence, he can personally tell her what happened AND

...sorry, malfunction. AND make sure the new drink goes straight into her hands and no one else has a chance to fuck w it.

Anyway is it that important to pick holes in a twitter thread narrative if we aren't disputing the actions of the main character?

Glenn Thrush, Suspended Times Reporter, to Resume Work but Won’t Cover White House

good job everyone

lol wtf

Basketball is pretty damn weird about this shit, I mean, I'm amazed anyone lets Derrick Rose play

Thrust got a demotion, essentially - do you think he should've been fired?

The Times apparently does not think his behavior was offensive enough to get him fired. I refuse to speculate where the line of demarcation is on that.

xp re TJ Miller
I was thinking when she came back and said "Hey where's my drink?" the bartender could then explain the situation as he handed her a new drink. But how's life is probably right, a mis-remembering or mis-telling after so long.

Just saw this about artist Chuck Close.

https://hyperallergic.com/418222/chuck-close-accused-sexual-misconduct/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=Hyperallergic&utm_content=Renowned+Artist+Chuck+Close+Under+Fire+for+Alleged+Sexual+Misconduct

http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2017/12/20/a-portland-woman-starts-an-advocacy-group-to-defend-people-accused-of-sexual-misconduct/

xp got naked to be polite???

As you start your group, how will you keep away actual predators looking to quash authentic allegations?

I'm going to have to be very careful of that.

also, oy at this chuck close times interview.

But then Mr. Close said that he made his models audition for him first, Ms. Graves recalled. “I’m at this point a little tipsy and totally flattered — in the presence of one of my heroes,” she said. He wheeled over to the bathroom, she said, “and asked me to take my clothes off. Then he started telling me about sexual acts that he and a local waitress perform on each other.” He also asked Ms. Graves highly invasive questions about her intimate grooming and remarked on how lucky her boyfriend was.

“I thought, ‘I don’t want this man to be saying these things to me,’” she said. “It was just this profound disappointment.” When Ms. Graves made clear she was not going to cooperate, Mr. Close wheeled himself over to his easel and went back to work. “I let myself out,” she said.

Mr. Close said he did not remember this incident but that it sounded possible.

here's that link if you want to read the whole thing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/arts/design/chuck-close-sexual-harassment.html

I’m at this point a little tipsy and totally flattered — in the presence of one of my heroes

hey women the reason that men become 'your heroes' is to have sex with you

fuck outta here with that bullshit

honest questions 1 how the fuck is sleepingbag still here, 2 sleepingbag why the fuck are you here

*gets drunk and goes with man to his bedroom while expressing interest and attraction* (two minutes later) "goodness me... sexual intimations? i am blindsided by this highly unprofessional turn of events"

i have complete empathy for victims of crimes + abuse. i absolutely have scorn for the perpetrators of such crimes. what am i supposed to be seeing in that story you quoted forks? there's nothing there. "i don't want this man to be saying these things to me".... ok, sorry?

“Last time I looked, discomfort was not a major offense,” he added. “I never
reduced anyone to tears, no one ever ran out of the place. If I embarrassed anyone or
made them feel uncomfortable, I am truly sorry, I didn’t mean to. I acknowledge
having a dirty mouth, but we’re all adults.”

a female professional was approached by a powerful and rich person who worked in her field and asked her to come to his studio to be photographed. He didn't intimate at any point until she was there that he intended to use her as a nude model. Then he tells her "Your pussy looks delicious." If you don't see that as harassment, that's on you.

i have complete empathy for victims of crimes + abuse. i absolutely have scorn for the perpetrators of such crimes.

hey women the reason that men become 'your heroes' is to have sex with you

i mean, the guy photographs vaginas close up + it's kind of my point that all art and achievement is a subtext to create attraction and so it maybe shouldn't be that shocking when it arises. i might head into that situation with at least slightly different expectations if i were that woman. some people won't stand for crassness or honest expression of sexual desire from a man... fair enough, maybe it warrants an apology. i just don't think it's criminal or scandalous in the slightest.

Wow you're such a badass independent thinker, what an iconoclast, keep em heads ringin, m8

/I’m at this point a little tipsy and totally flattered — in the presence of one of my heroes/

hey women the reason that men become 'your heroes' is to have sex with you

all art and achievement is a subtext to create attraction

i don't usually have a lot to say around here but I feel like I need to point out that this statement is broad, vague, and ridiculous.

Also monday morning quarterbacking what you would do in this situation is not the greatest. Like literally no one wants to hear it.

xposts

if that were true then every such interaction would be a coercion, which would validate (and multiply) the complainants, rather than ratify your sneering lectures to silly girls about the ways of the world.

well, that is exactly what is happening right now, no? take matt lauer: completely reciprocal consensual relationship with a woman who only in the current cultural moment comes to think of herself as a victim... this is somehow beyond being questioned?

btw 'silly girls' have agency. this woman left the room before anything happened. i understand that all people don't find this easy to do, particularly those who have been prior victimized. but is there not still a distinction between 'this person victimized/abused me' and 'this person said something that made me uncomfortable & that was the end of it'?

your comments here make it clear that you're looking at the problem from what i consider to be simply the wrong end of the telescope.

1) these women speaking out is a show of agency; are you somehow suggesting they've given up the right to publicly relate their experience?
2) this gains them nothing in the public sphere; what artist wants to have "was famously harassed by Chuck Close" appended to their obit?

fwiw i believe that basically any male in the art, music, media, comedy, film, politic, sport, etc. 'prestige' fields could generate a headline under the current criteria for a sex abuse scandal... probably 90%. anything one has ever done in one's entire life that may have made a sexually-desired person uncomfortable or been interpreted as an inappropriate or any unreciprocated advance seems to be on the table. i dunno, maybe it's a great thing and will have a positive impact on male behavior going forward? i think it's unlikely that men will stop hitting on women or trying to move things along when they sense the possibility of sex. i guess that's one for the uncool conservative beliefs thread.

xp you have plenty of people on the 'right' end of the telescope as it were, certainly the vast majority of people here if not everyone. & i don't think any ill effect of any of this is the 'fault' of women sharing their experiences, whether or not i believe or agree with them. i think the media is creating somewhat of an opportunity for public vigilantism. again, maybe that has more benefit than drawback. i personally don't think so, but i accept i am for all purposes of conversation here on the 'wrong' side of this. i just can't see it any other way... i'm an intimidating looking guy who has been labelled things i am not on several occasions, so i know it's something that happens. i don't know how often. but i don't like the idea that it's beyond reason in the moment to see things from that perspective, innocent until proven guilty et al.

Well what's intimidating about you? Serious question. What have you been labeled? Also a serious question.

i dunno.. i'm a large man with a beard, i've been told i look intimidating, i had a woman i had zero connection to say i 'looked like a rapist' whatever the fuck that meant... i never said i'd been accused of anything, i haven't. but i've seen some words get thrown around based on feelings or notions or who knows what.

I'm making an effort to not lead discussion on this topic ESPECIALLY ONLINE so i should probably stfu.

i do wanna say that your rhetoric here is ill-conceived, sb. (Insert name of celebrity asshole here) has been/is continuing to act in a fashion that is indisputably asshole-ish. When multiple women speak out against (celebrity asshole), why on earth would your first reaction be to defend the actions of (celebrity asshole), when (celebrity asshole) outright acknowledges that he is, in fact, being a celebrity asshole, especially when there are no obvious forthcoming repercussions for (celebrity asshole's) actions besides being branded a celebrity asshole?

i think it's unlikely that men will stop hitting on women or trying to move things along when they sense the possibility of sex.

Am basically echoing the rebecca traister article from a couple of weeks back - sometimes, it's not the behaviour/act itself that is the affront or the crime, but the dismissal of a woman's right to be a) taken seriously as a professional/peer.

sure, men have a right to make a pass at a woman whenever they feel like it and women have a right to decline those advances, but it's disappointing how often this is what professional settings often boil down to. it's exhausting having to constantly avoid being alone with men, it's exhausting having our value as a person reduced, it's exhausting having to navigate the usual biases against women without also having to deal with unwanted sexual advances or inappropriate behaviour. Especially when women are already vastly underrepresented in pretty much all those fields you listed.

meh, ignore that a) i meant to add something else to that sentence but lost my train of thought.

Nah that's a good post imo

don't stfu xxp. i really think talking some of this stuff out is much more important than stubbornly or secretly holding on to feelings or prejudices, or outright condemning decent people on either side of whatever issue. i don't care if my rhetoric is 'ill conceived' because in the absence of some other better way to consider it i'll continue to maintain that being an asshole is not a crime. obviously that is motivated somewhat by self-interest.

tbh i am curious if any non-men here have any reservations about the current climate for accusations. i have seen women elsewhere make some points from that position (ex. megan mcardle https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-18/the-current-sex-panic-harks-back-to-the-era-of-coddling-women) but i assume that here they would obv be ignored/dismissed for being too conservative or whatever.

xp i know this is crass but please believe that it's a real q bc it is: what exactly is the professional/peer relationship supposed to be btwn 'person taking photograph of a woman's vagina' and 'person getting their vagina photographed by an older man'? i know the article says there are unspoken rules for nude subjects of art but how + why are those expected to be adhered to? what makes a man want to photograph naked women to begin with?

artist/subject is a fairly well-defined professional relationship, regardless of what kind of artist that person is. many people tend to be fuzzy on what is appropriate within that relationship (like yourself, it seems), but that's why those unspoken codes of conduct exist.

it's important to note that the women speaking against chuck close are not models used to posing nude but artists in their own right. the second woman certainly didn't deserve the behaviour she describes being subjected to after she declined, as is her right, his request to go topless. this is exactly the kind of thing that contributes to many women feeling that they're being devalued and not taken seriously as a professional/peer.

She told Mr. Close she had to think about it and ultimately decided against it. “I came to the conclusion that I was not being photographed as an artist but as a woman,” she said. “I said, ‘I hope I can still come to your studio.’” But when she called a few weeks later to arrange that visit, Ms. Brown said, Mr. Close “acted like he did not know me.” ...

Ms. Brown said that having to tell Mr. Fuhrman about this turn of events only added to her level of disappointment. “It was humiliating to say to this person who’s a huge supporter of my work, ‘Actually, it was conditional on me taking my top off’ — telling one of my big patrons, ‘This person we both admire doesn’t actually admire me.’”

that’s excellent, roz

there was this too, from huffpost, ‘Three days after their initial meeting, Fox emailed Close to arrange a time to meet. In response, Close invited her to come to his studio on Bond Street in Manhattan on Friday, Oct. 18, to pose for a shoot. In these emails, which Fox shared with HuffPost, neither Fox nor Close discussed the prospect of nudity during the shoot. Fox said she was familiar with Close’s oversize portraits, which are typically close-ups of human faces. She assumed he wanted her to pose for a similar project.’

sure, men have a right to make a pass at a woman whenever they feel like it and women have a right to decline those advances

I might be reading this wrong and/or missing some context,my apologies if so, but men don’t and shouldn’t have that right in a professional setting where they have the power (which will be most of them), because women’s right to decline will be compromised.

Oh absolutely agree with you there. I didn't phrase that right - I was responding more to the idea that you can't stop men from making passes at women and that they shouldn't be punished if that's all they did.

I don't think any of the high-profile men that have been outed so far have been accused of "asked colleague for a date, was rebuffed, said 'ok' and went about their business as usual" tbf

said "ok, it's just your career" mmm

poll re: members of parliament in UK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPBBbAuX0AEC2J4?format=jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPBBbAuX0AEC2J4?format=jpg