Bodak Yellow is:

not as frustrating as "I love this relatively obscure artist, so anyone who doesn't mirror my infallible taste is a deluded corporate shill." I mean, I've done it too -- probably anyone who writes about music has -- but it isn't a defensible position

you *see so much groupthink. not are

If you don’t think critical views of rap are mainly shaped by industry forces which reward scalability at its most extreme you’re not paying attention

Rap is a living breathing art form where a multiplicity of voices are in conversation with each other, where innovation is a product of culture. but that doesn’t matter because if cardi just does a really easy to understand version we can bypass all that and just say yasss bodak yellow

i don’t think david is arguing that at all. i do think that when you see outliers on the pop chart it’s worth interrogating how they “happened.” we could also do the same with portugal. the man, who went top ten in a year largely allergic to rock. or khalid. or etc

not as frustrating as "I love this relatively obscure artist, so anyone who doesn't mirror my infallible taste is a deluded corporate shill." I mean, I've done it too -- probably anyone who writes about music has -- but it isn't a defensible position

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:36 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The idea that these artists are “obscure” comes from such an insane myopic vantage point. We’re talking about the artists who literally informed the sound of the music she makes, who are major names within a musical tradition that you mainly ignore

xp - I'm aware of how playlisting works (can't say *how* aware because of NDAs) but the thing about metrics-based playlisting is that the metrics come from actual people*. the result of adding your obscure, or at least not widely beloved, faves to those playlists is generally large amounts of skips and dislikes -- i.e. forcing people to work around listening to artists they don't want to listen to. with Cupcakke in particular there's also a respectability politics component, which sucks but exists. it's going to be difficult to get a song called "Vagina" onto most playlists, let alone convince people not to skip it immediately when it comes on at work or whatever, and given that that's largely her thing, there is going to be a barrier there. (I can't talk about the other artists because I haven't heard them, nor do they particularly seem like my thing.)

TBC not saying your insane but that the vantage point is insanely myopic (sorry if that came across as personal)

the key word here is "relatively"

Katherine what the people want isn’t some biological imperative it’s informed by discourse / marketing

And I agree “vagina” wouldn’t make sense on rap caviar (ahh corporations) but the whole point is if a label invests in her career they ideally help protect her vision while giving her the tools to make it onto rap caviar which is exactly what happened with cardi b, who literally was not a recording artist two years ago

Or I should say it’s not *wholly* a biological imperative e

also, I'm not sure how "you don't listen to rap" is relevant here given that a) "scalability at its most extreme" is how the entire music industry works, and b) I'm not the one writing about "Bodak Yellow" for Pitchfork or anywhere else. I don't even think I voted for it.

portugal. the man, who went top ten in a year largely allergic to rock.

tbf their hit was barely a rock song; it was like a Bruno Mars or Taylor Swift song from 5 years ago but with weaker vocals

tho i do love "feel it still" i would still have to acknowledge that the thing that sounds most like (postman aside) is indie meghan trainor

i'm gonna call "good song" as the likely winner here btw

I voted Okay

I also voted Okay

anyway, I seem to be doing a poor job of getting my argument across (what else is new) so I give up

anyway, I seem to be doing a poor job of getting my argument across (what else is new) so I give up

Take the old Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" and swap "sense of self" for "salary," and voila! Pop-cultural discourse in 2017!

My sense of self?

I feel like everyone is always projecting selfish motivations on others which conflicts w their clear eyed view of the world

Or self interested, anyway

if my motivations were self-interested I wouldn't have posted in the first place

that's not how posting works

other. i dont need 250-3000 words. just one will do

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can tell how out of touch music critics/popular newspapers/magazines are these days

°Û mad

https://www.theshirtlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Were-all-mad-here.jpg

ascii art, a true sign one is in touch with today

touched a critics nerve i c

critics don't have nerves

tangent, but pop radio's allergy to rock is no worse than its allergy to basically everything that isn't homogenized ac-(/white-)friendly soft rock balladry or edm midtempos. the number of pop radio top 10s crossing from rock radio is essentially equal to the number crossing from urban radio, even tho the latter are far more voraciously consumed (and can thus chart well even when pop ignores them).

of 2016's pop radio top 10s: 4 crossed from rock radio, 3 from urban, with the remaining 42 being straightforward pop/ac/edm-lite
of 2017's pop radio top 10s: 4 rock (3 not counting "castle on the hill" which broke first at aaa which one might argue is too adult to really be 'rock'), 4 urban (3 not counting "too good at goodbyes" which broke first at adult urban aka the format sam smith would have had to start his career at if he weren't white), 1 latin ("despacito"), 37 straightforward pop/ac/edm-lite

the distinctive thing about this year's 'rock' crossovers is that all of them crossed via hot ac radio and tv ad placements, which might explain why many of them don't even sound much like rock.

Side note: portugal the man is sampling “please mr postman” by the marvelettes so it’s not rooted in rock at all.

a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream

moka, i imagine this is a question of translation but i would suggest that most anyone who thinks about music much would consider "please mr postman" a rock n roll song. the beatles did.

the argument that the success of the song is all due to promo push and behind-the-scenes music biz stuff is belied by the fact that it's the first #1 solo female rap hit in 20 years; if it were so easy for labels to engineer a hit like this don't you think they would have done it more than once this millenium

i just think this song is corny. my feeling is that down the road people will reflect on the production and vocal delivery and it will seem lame and forced and kind of awkwardly sincere (like john wayne westerns, or latter-day boogie down) rather than "wow this is still so fresh and badass" (like clint E circa "fistful" or wu tang). still fun, tho, yeah! just corny.

Xpost: isn’t it doowop/r&b? I suppose it can be rock too. Portugal the man is not a rocking song at any rate, it’s more of a groovy pop number rather than a rocking one.

Budo jeru otm

the argument that the success of the song is all due to promo push and behind-the-scenes music biz stuff is belied by the fact that it's the first #1 solo female rap hit in 20 years; if it were so easy for labels to engineer a hit like this don't you think they would have done it more than once this millenium

― flopson, Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:46 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Imo this is more abt music industry not investing in women than it is about cardi b being some legendary anomaly

Rap Caviar won't play a song called "Vagina" but they have a woman beater talking about fucking throats, a paedo talking about putting dick in backbones and a murderer talking about nutting on a face.

All those things are "Caviar" btw

Not even on a Tipper tip, just like how kath and deej agree Cupcakke would be out of place there

All the BDP albums are good and the last one Sex & Violence is underrated Duck Down was an awesome single

yeah i agree but if you think "love's gonna get ya" isn't corny then like ummm idk

new CupcakKe has plenty of songs not titled "Vagina", no reason "Biggie Smalls" or "Scraps" couldn't be on Rap Caviar (apart ofc from it being a lame playlist w the lamest name)

Niels otm

chris I don’t think me or Katherine would say it’s *rigt* but yeah w/in rap raunchy women are somehow more over the line than gangster pedophiles

haha don’t let portugal the man hear you say they’re not a rock band. they might go after you on instagram

This is a totally side topic but it's also so great when the state of rock music is determined by a handful of bum ass soft serve major label bands
Btw Maura I really like Pile from your year end list, really great band

actually kind of curious now whether streaming makes it easier or harder for (sigh, phrasing) raunchier women. I can think of arguments for both

ah yeah pile are the freaking best! they’re even better live

i just think this song is corny. my feeling is that down the road people will reflect on the production and vocal delivery and it will seem lame and forced and kind of awkwardly sincere (like john wayne westerns, or latter-day boogie down) rather than "wow this is still so fresh and badass" (like clint E circa "fistful" or wu tang). still fun, tho, yeah! just corny.

― budo jeru, Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Otm. Just strikes me as a "my 1st rap song I liked" for preteens. Full disclosure, I've never listened to the whole song.

Preteens Love Louboutins

Loubou-preteens