Star Wars 8 shit talk

Luke's years of devastation and loss were boiled down to "so I was in a tent one night and decided to kill my nephew"

Like, I dug lukes character in this and hammill was far better than hoped, but the plot that got us here is treated with laughable contempt imo

Luke's years of devastation and loss were boiled down to "so I was in a tent one night and decided to kill my nephew"

Ya gotta start *somewhere*

Anyway I'm off to see this for the second time in about an hour -- which means I know where to time my bathroom break this time around (the meet-cute with Benicio del Toro or whatever you want to call it).

darragh I know u are Highlander but in American trying to kill your own nephew is kind of a big deal

Quick question

After death of solo, is it the feeling around the place that we care an awful lot about the Skywalker's compared to the newer characters from TFA

I kinda don't but may be an outlier. Just think TFA established a good chance at a clean break that still paid due homage, and was disappointed that this was somewhat of a reversion

XP look I acknowledge that you new worlders are soft on family and I'm allowing for that

I'm saying we never found a half decent reason why Luke decided to go with it (I mean they threw out a reason but Jesus it was a quick and lazy exposition), nor a half decent reason why solo-vader decided to dabble with granddad's Nazi attic box

Thing is, we're now in a space where with Carrie Fisher's death, there's simply no way for the original planned arc to continue, which by all accounts would have included a face-off or meeting or something between Leia and Kylo. So the Skywalker story as such would have run the full new trilogy; as it is, the real clean break -- imposed by totally outside circumstances -- occurs with the new one. Unless Lando shows up or something.

Fair, of course

xpost Because the idea that Luke's years of experience, devestation and loss might have changed him didn't seem to resonate with a bunch of whiners who apparently have never experienced that themselves.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:16 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I compared it to losing one's religious faith late in life due to personal tragedy and still got met with proverbial empty stares.

that's basically how I took it

it wasn't the "omg, I briefly flicked on my light saber in a weak moment and took an aggressive stance to kill my nephew" that caused his lost faith. it was the fact that he did it recklessly and impulsively, allowing his intended target to see, one who was already conflicted between light and dark side, and this gave his student the excuse to legitimize the things Snoke had taught him about Jedis. and then he failed to stop Kylo from overpowering him and also killing half of his students.

If he'd have flicked his saber off and Kylo had stayed there, I doubt Luke would have ended the temple and run away to the hills. He had never taught before, he had no living Jedi masters to consult with (just Force Ghosts), and his first foray into teaching led to results similar to the ones Obi-Wan experienced. So he starts questioning "Why does this *keep happening* to the Jedi". I don't think it's that far-fetched.

Kylo being tempted by Vader makes perfect sense. He grew up in the shadow of legends so he had no real identity for himself. He had nothing but expectations, due to being a Solo AND a Skywalker. His parents had a path for him, he was probably your typical rebellious kid, and seeing his Master standing over him with light saber drawn probably made the decision easier for him.

Luke knew the saber draw was a momentary weak moment - Kylo thought it was an outright attack and that he saved himself by waking up in time.

that's also the reason he dispatches Snoke - Snoke also has heavy expectations based on his bloodline, and Kylo is tired of being expected to be the new Vader, he just wants to be his own brand of badass.

it's funny, the haters of this film have defended Obi-Wan's exile because it was partially "to protect Luke", even though he allowed Luke to grow up on his father's home planet, living with his father's relatives, with his father's last name, and then almost allows him to get killed by sand people while supposedly 'watching over the boy'.

Not to mention, the idea that Obi-Wan and Yoda put so much faith in the return of the Jedi in two Skywalker children is a bit of a weak move. What if one of them dies in a landspeeder accident, and other doesn't want to be a Jedi and instead lives as a poker player on the outer rim?

I think the "prophecy" that was introduced in the prequels fuckin' sucked. such a weak narrative device (at least when not used well).

Unless Lando shows up or something.

Don't discount this!

Billy Dee Williams is like 80, hope he lives long enough to shoot it

it would be awesome if she shows up but he's Harvey Dent instead

So the Skywalker story as such would have run the full new trilogy; as it is, the real clean break -- imposed by totally outside circumstances -- occurs with the new one.

We are literally only one movie past two major (human) characters from the first Star Wars movies getting digitally recreated.

Leia's lasted approximately 3 seconds, and Tarkin had I think 3 scenes. And it was in one of the betweenquel movies where they probably felt like they could get away with it.

A whole entire movie featuring a CGI Leia would probably be too much (def would be for me).

I'd like our narrative to not be justified by so much autobiographical projection I guess

it's...actually right there on the screen in many places.

Kylo has an entire monologue about living up to his grandpa, kills his dad, gets lectured by Snoke about how he isn't the new Vader he's supposed to be, erupts in a rage, flies on an offensive to kill his mom (unable to pull trigger), later consults Rey by saying "let the past die, kill it if you must", then repeats it after he kills Snoke.

but yeah, all projection....

xpost I didn't mean an entire movie with a CGI Carrie Fisher, but come on, eventually they'll figure that out.

if yr asking for 1-2 movies showing how Kylo got seduced by the Dark Side tho, I will direct you to the litany of graphic novels that are likely to be published in the ensuing years to satiate fans who need everything written out

xpost nothing to 'figure out', it's already possible to do and they've done it in movies. but fans would revolt (and this time i'd be with them). I didn't care about 2-second Carrie but full-movie Carrie and....just nah.

I meant figure out fully convincingly. And fans would not revolt at all. They would turn out in droves to see it and then complain, just like with this movie, just like every movie. What was the last major franchise film to flop? Those Hobbit movies were terrible, and even they made tons, iirc.

I hear ya man

But theres an awful lot of bad dialogue in these and you can hang a lot on any of it

I....would probably read those graphic novels tho

What was the last major franchise film to flop?

The DC films.

Did they flop? No way. They "underperformed."

Batman V. Superman: 872.7 million USD
Suicide Squad 746.8 million USD
Justice League 646.7 million USD
Wonder Woman 821.9 million USD

People will watch anything.

Wonder Woman underperformed? Female director, unknown female star? First I heard that.

also i think WW had half the budget of BvS.

The Mummy?

I just put WW in there as a DC film that didn't flop, it obviously did really well, as well as Thor or whatever. The other movies were considered box office disappointments, which is how I meant "underperformed." The Mummy seems like a good candidate, but even that one made over $400 million on a budget of $100 million or so.

yeah none of those are 'flops' unless we're talking critically, which ...isn't what is usually referred to as a flop

Flopsonned

I might have misread that, each film might have only underperformed, but I'd say the franchise as a whole has flopped.

A lot of films that are intended to start franchises flop, a recent example being The Dark Tower.

Justice League 646.7 million USD

That still might not be enough to make a profit for the studio. I'm seeing $750 million as its estimated breakeven point. It was a stupidly expensive film.

The Mummy also reportedly lost a lot of money.

Fantastic Four probably the last major superhero flop

FF clearly only made to maintain rights. I’ve seen better high school plays.

the 1994 ashcan copy, or the Michael B Jordan/Kate Mara one

the latter

just wait til Marvel Studios purchases the rights 10 years from now and re-re-reboots it

I knew that was gonna be a stinker when I saw this trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7QzW-siAro

"And what if we say no?"
"...Say yes."

IF that's the best piece of dialogue you could cobble up for the trailer, damn

Disney own Fox now. It'll be much sooner than that

they should have Chris Evans be Human Torch again

Evans joked about that on Twitter when the deal was announced.

looking at those DC "flop" numbers are insane, perhaps the current blockbuster film business is just unsustainable

my original point is that nothing will sink these sequels, let alone spark any sort of substantial box office backlash.

looking at those DC "flop" numbers are insane, perhaps the current blockbuster film business is just unsustainable

― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), 31. december 2017 19:14 (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It is. The Dark Tower was both a major flop, and the best selling film directed by a Danish director ever. The studious are throwing so much money at stupid ideas with untested directors it's insane. Everyone wants to get the next big Cinematic Universe, or the next Jurassic World.

if this business can't figure out a way to make money on selling 3 quarters of a billion in tickets I don't know what to tell them

I think the marketing costs are scaled to the production costs so you end up with tons of money tacked on to the budget

It’d be funny if they eschewed tv commercials and major ads for the next Star Wars film and just let it ride on momentum

I hope they one up ROTJ and advertise one title up until opening night and then reveal a different title when it opens

Star Wars: Big Ship Go Boom Boom